@DuncanM23 Lance Armstrong would still be racing if those things didn’t matter . Give me a break. My post was flagged. Clearly, having an opinion that differs from others is offensive. Look up the Bill of Rights. Very sad state of affairs right now…
That’s my point. All the things being said for and against have little scientific study from physiologists, exercise scientists, kinematics experts to back them up. There’s too much “it’s obvious” or “it only makes sense that” for me to be conclusive one way or the other.
As far as the shower/change room thing, I just assumed that in the case of competition, it meant a fully transitioned gender reassigned person, including the removal of genitalia, not just hormone therapy. I could see the latter as being a non-starter for many.
Your post was flagged because deliberate misgendering is offensive. US law might allow you to be as offensive as you like, but it doesn’t stop it being offensive.
These posts always end up being 2 groups of people shouting at each other. I’m surprised we made it to 65 posts of civility. Enjoy the rest of it…
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no and herein lies the major problem, all Rachel has done is reduced her Testosterone levels and identified as a woman. If she so feels she could stop taking the suppression meds and become male again at any time she so decides.
Okay stop responding you are adding ZERO value to this conversation. I knew at some point someone was going to turn this into and ugly discussion and here you are.
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Agree with what? I agree she should not be racing against females if you read through all the posts??? What I don’t agree with is the way you are trying to present it.
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Ahh, that’s a different twist I was unaware of.
Still unclear on the efficacy and physiology of hormone treatment as it pertains to male vs female but to still have all male genitalia is a different story. The trans cyclist I know has made the full transition I do not hesitate in considering her a female. To me in my uniformed opinion, to be eligible you should be fully transitioned, but RM still followed the UCI rules so until that changes, the win is legit.
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I would also like to say that I am not in anyway saying anything against Rachael it is the rules I think are incorrect. She is following the rules so she did nothing wrong but the rules are what is in question.
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@Critwannabe all the women need to band together to put a stop to this none sense. If Rachel was the only contender, because women stood up and said, “no more”, the problem would solve itself
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This is not fair to women. Women’s rights are being stomped on. BTW, my rights don’t end where your feelings begin
This really is a potential hornets nest!
The only observation I’d make is that the physiological differences pertaining to sport are far more complex than testosterone alone. It would have been interesting to see how her power profile altered after transitioning.
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I’ve mentioned this in other posts similar to this last year on different social platforms. I never see any reference to women’s menstrual cycles when this is being debated. The sole fact that women are dealing with large hormone fluctuations on a monthly basis which impacts their training and racing creates an unfair advantage. There are certain parts of the cycle where top end is seriously impacted, higher heart rates, less heat tolerance, mood swings, and more.
I fundamentally do not believe that you can science your way in to a “level” playing field by manipulating testosterone production alone. A more prudent stance would have been to not allow participation until many many more studies were completed, pier reviewed, and there was generally accepted conclusion. Rather, I believe they took the easier way out and allowed participation without having enough information and now are stuck in a situation that is beginning to impact women athletes across the globe.
I would also encourage people to look a McKinnon’s twitter feed. This person is aggressive, demeaning to other opinions, and in general a nasty person. McKinnon has said that they shouldn’t have to take any testosterone reducing hormones and believes that they should be able to compete as is with no interventions to attempt to “level” the playing field.
Just a few days ago they called for people to report anyone to the USAC SafeSport that “saying transphobic (or otherwise $hitty things), PLEASE report them to @usacycing SafeSport. Hold people accountable”
Who do you think defines what “transphobic” means? From what I have seen on their twitter it is defined by any opinion other than their own.
This entire situation undermines women’s rights to compete in sport. Just because the IOC, UCI, and others have been bullied or are scared to take a stance does not make it right. It might make it “legal” at the time of this post, but that doesn’t make it right. When we are looking at a Cat 5 level that is one conversation, when we are looking at people training 600-800 hours a year and flying across the world to compete in a world championship it is an entirely different story. It is also a different story when you’re talking about high school and college students who are competing for regional, state, and national championships where your placing impacts your ability to be noticed for a college scholarship or sponsorship.
I think more people should be emboldened to stand up for women’s rights and not be bullied into silence.
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I was going to bring up menstrual cycle as another issue to content of this but not sure of all the issues that arise with it and how it affects performance but sure it certainly does.
This thread has diverged a bit and will probably get locked. I’m a sexual libertarian, so long as it does not involve abusing children or animals or goes against another’s will. Simply put, I don’t care what people identify as, who they eff, what pronouns they go by, and so forth. I just don’t care.
But to your point, it is getting ridiculous and this level of ridiculousness comes without any bounds, nor does it have any sense of logic. At some point, one would conclude that there has to be a breaking point to this insanity, but alas, not only does the insanity continue – it continues to get worse. Search on Google. There are actual articles (not satire) written by activists in the last 6-12 months that suggest anyone who does not want to DATE or MARRY a transgender person is, therefore, “transphobic”. I fear we’re too far gone as a society to fix that level of insanity.
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Just FYI, the “where does it stop?” argument is both a slippery slope AND a strawman argument, which are two logical fallacies you should avoid.
The thing is, no-one will let you race with juniors because age-dissonance isn’t something you can correct with hormones etc.
From what I’ve read they only lose about 10% of their T levels and muscles. I’m all for Transgender to be able to compete. In their own class. Absolutely should be allowed to. Sport is for everyone.
Imagine if a female who transitions to a male competed they would get blown away. Males are larger. Bigger. Stronger.
Think of it like this. If a trans woman wanted to fight as a boxer against Tyson Fury. Should that be allowed? No one would want to see her get messed up.
The Sporting bodies, WADA Olympic committee etc needs to put rules into place. Or a complete new code.
But this is all so new. And no one wants to cause controversy.
I am glad that the women she competed against have come out and spoken.
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I don’t think anyone would actually go through the persistent trauma of being a transperson just to win. They would have to have so many co-morbid mental health disorders to even think that was close to OK that it’s highly unlikely that person would exist.
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No, because you’re making people feel unwelcome here that just want to go about their everyday lives because of a silly antiquated prejudice.
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Mate, don’t insinuate that you’re doing this for women’s rights. You clearly have a moral issue with trans people and are using this forum to be as offensive as possible. Your “rights” aren’t a licence to be as inconsiderate as possible.
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Does this include UCI pay parity (not to mention race parity)? 
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