And… scene.
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It is comments like these is why I opted to leave the conversation. It does not seem to be rooted in good faith, so rather than continue with something like that, I opted to excuse myself.
I left this conversation a while back. My parting words were please be respectful or something like that. I find the communication has left the realm of respect a long time ago. I am disheartened to see the language used to describe some doctors and parents who are trying to help these children make their way in this judgy, toxic and at times hateful world. I could only imagine the harm and damage the words written by some members here would cause a child dealing with these issues all in the name of tough love or some other OBJECTIVE bullshit.
I have three kids. At times both my girls preferred girls. They were both scared to tell me for some reason and I am ashamed of that. When they each told me at different times I told them I did not care at all… I asked are you happy? They said yes. I told them all that matters to me is that they are happy and that I love them. Love whoever you want if it makes you happy! If your happy then I am happy.
If they are not happy or in danger then then I’ll have an issue!
My riding buddy has 2 kids, one boy and one girl. They are both transitioning. It has caused their whole family nothing but pain. Why cant we all just accept that some people are different and accept them as such.
It was OBJECTIVE arguments that approved sterilizing the mentally retarded.
It was OBJECTIVE arguments that condoned segregation.
It was OBJECTIVE arguments that condoned the holocaust.
It was OBJECTIVE arguments that condoned world war one and two.
It was OBJECTIVE arguments that condoned slavery.
Objective
(of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
Give me a break. Every persons facts are influenced by their personal feelings and opinions and are just using the word OBJECTIVE to make them not look like such an asshole.
Lets be OBJECTIVE
EVERY PERSON has the right to live their best life as long as they allow EVERY OTHER PERSON THE EXACT SAME RIGHT.
Stop being human doings and start being HUMAN BEINGS!!!
This conversation WAS about sport. There is nothing SPORTING in this conversation. It has become an attack against members of our species that are different.
Now if you’ll excuse me I need to go Puke! I could OBJECTIVELY blame the covid. But I would be lying my ass off.
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Turns out you hoped wrong.
It’s not an attack, let’s not make it a personal fight of good person bad person identity politics. This is what has caused the huge political divisions of our time which is so damaging. Everyone should have the right to identify however they feel but this is a discussion of what is right and fair for Women sport.
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This has to be one of the most offensive statements I have read. It is on the verge of hate language and it is really sad.
At this point I dont give a shit about sports. What about fairness in life? What about helping a neighbor out? What about lifting someone up when they are down.
This topic left sports a long time ago and is just attack after attack on people that have certain issues with their life and want them to be better! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT? Do we not all want more for our kids? Do we not all want more for humanity? How about bringing some humanity and compassion back to this conversation.
Besides what is fairness in sports? Why is it a s-works sponsored rider who does this for a living can compete with a guy who gets three hours commuting to work on his dads old norco 10 speed? Is that FAIR??? Is that JUST??? Does the commuter have some mental issue because he does not ride an s-works? Give me a break. Topics like these are just excuses for some people to get their hate on.
If someone knows a way to hide conversations from coming up please message me. I am puking enough with covid. I dont want this. ’
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So are you saying it isn’t fair but lots of things aren’t fair so cis gendered women should just suck it up?
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I stand by each one of those things I’ve said. Could you perhaps explain specifically what you take issue with each one?
How is it fair to allow a man into women’s sports when men have compared to women: larger hearts and lungs, greater oxygen capacity, larger & denser muscle tissue; larger and denser bone; higher concentration of mitochondria; higher pain thresholds, I could go on and on forever. Again, it is NOT fair to let men into women’s sports.
Using bike gear as some kind of justification for men entering women’s sports is mind bogglingly deranged.
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For every female identifying trans person present at all at top-level sport, they have already dominated at all lower levels of competition to get there - removing opportunity from women and girls as they go.
Every year multiple 15-16 year old schoolboys run a 100 metre sprint time faster than the women’s world record. There is no comparison or fair competition, ever.
Sport is categorised by sex, not gender.
The USA conflating the two en-masse is the biggest problem here.
No one believes it’s possible to change sex, so there’s no justification at all to uproot all our sports competitions to please a tiny portion of the populace.
Talking about inclusion: 99.9% of the population are already excluded from high level sport by not having the genetics and opportunities. You can still play and enjoy sport, it’s fine.
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Unfortunately, he’s already indicated that he doesn’t really care if actual women get screwed over, as long as ‘trans women’ are included, that’s all that matters.
You hit the nail on the head right here. It’s mind boggling that people can’t wrap their heads around this. The cognitive dissonance is shocking.
Oh. you are so wrong. Personally I believe that their should be different classifications.
In the second of the original posted articles the female athlete has organs that produce testostarone at levels that other women cannot compete with. That is a distinctly unfair advantage and the only way other women could fairly compete would be to dope and that is not allowed so it is not fair, just or right in my opinion. I personally believe that there needs to be different classifications according to need and that need should have women in sports being the determining factor.
I never once said that a woman should have to compete against another woman, man or trans-woman. THAT is the WOMANS DECISION! I am not a woman. I support my wife, my 2 girls and son and anyone else who needs it if I can. What I wont put up with is dehumanizing bullies who do it for no reason!
What I object to is you using terminology that is disrespectful of other human beings that are just trying to make their way through life the best they can. In my opinion you are saying those points not to make your argument but for another agenda.
Stop yelling NOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD buddy. We all Get it.
And nobody believed the earth was round.
And nobody believed …
And nobody believed …
And nobody believed …
And nobody believed …
And nobody believed UNTIL THEY DID!
Also you don’t speak for me. How the hell do you know what I believe? Or do I not belong to the group “No one”?
I think we need to reduce the level of venom. Hate is always bad no matter where it comes from and is the reason we are in the current divisive times we are in.
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For heaven’s sake man, please be specific.
I scrolled back up and can’t see what you’re referring to, was it with regard to Caster Semenya who I believe has testicles and thus isn’t female? It’s true that women can naturally have high testosterone levels, but when that is the case because they have male anatomy, meaning they’re not actually women (XX), then it is an unfair advantage and they shouldn’t compete with women.
What terminology and why? Again man, explain clearly. No one is being disrespectful, being objective about reality isn’t disrespectful. Men competing in women’s sports isn’t doing the ‘best they can’, it’s screwing over actual women who often lose to these men and along with losing 1st place, lose prize money, sponsorships etc & depending upon the sport e.g. football & MMA, risk their life and health.
No one here seems to be yelling other than yourself. Perhaps take some time to calm down, put your emotion to one side and come back when you can think rationally and logically.
Caster Semenya has testicles and a vagina. So what is she as defined by you? God gave her both? Where does she fit on your sliding scale? Is this a genetic defect according to you? Do you get to decide what she is as the system says she is a woman.
Semenya is an intersex woman
So I agree with the answer of different classifications depending on circumstances. To be decided by women’s governing sports body in partnership with the woman in those sports!
I can use the word OBJECTIVE to describe CRUEL and OFFENSIVE language as you are being OBJECTIVE!
Do you realize you are forcing your perceived reality on others with cruel and offensive terminology. It is your reality. Everyone’s reality is a little bit different based on location, experiences and everything else! There has never been a need for you to use the word butchering or even go there. There is no reason for you to attack someone’s mental health on this topic. There is no need to attack doctors or parents for them wanting there kids to be happy. There is no reason at all to use terms like SO-CALLED! As a SO-CALLED objective person you are just being cruel.
“not all mentally ill men who believe they’re women”
OH MY GOD! Need I say more?
LASTLY I want sport to be fair. I want women to be safe and compete fairly. If any woman has an unfair advantage for ay reason it needs to be looked at. At this point in time I believe this requires different classifications as right now it certainly seems unfair. But that’s only my opinion. I trust Women will decide the best way for this to work out. They usually do!
There are exceptions in every sport. That’s one of the reasons we have drug testing. I actually think Drug testing is fair.
Thanks for keeping me up COVID 
NOT
Fair. Questioning, therapy and a lot of other things. But do we need to go to BUTCHER?
Yes that is true, I agree we do need to be careful of the language we use and remember that these are very vulnerable people we are talking about and often kids.
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I really agree with you and I think this thread needs better moderation. Thee are trans people on this forum and in fact have contributed to this thread. They should not be exposed to slurs and insults.
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Caster Semenya isn’t a woman (XX chromosomes) which you’ve acknowledged & therefore should not be competing with women.
This example you give is far removed from an actual woman (XX chromosomes) who has high testosterone, which can be boosted through diet, sleep, non-sleep deep rest protocols, weight lifting etc.
It’s as if you’re trying to intentionally mis-conflate these two wildly different scenarios.
I’ve not once used language that is cruel or offensive, I’ve used language that is objective and descriptive of the reality of what is going on. What’s happening is people are getting triggered by the truth.
Wonderful, you agree that men should be kept out of women’s sports. We’ve come full circle and you agree with what most of us are saying. It’s nice to come to an agreement, all the best.
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