Tom Danielson and Erg Mode

I’m happy to be anti ERG as I don’t have it.
For interval work up to say 3 minutes - yeah totally fine.

For 10 minute sweet spot though or threshold - I wish I had erg. It’s impossible to match desired cadence with power - The choice comes in 10rpm increments either 80, 90 or 100rpm and that’s with a not totally dumb trainer either.

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+1 for roller use. I use them for all the tempo workouts like Petit. My rollers don’t have enough resistance to be useful for intervals, I can only get to 250W which is around 3.4W/kg, enough for a great aerobic workout though.

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maybe I should dig out my rollers

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So you worked all day long and are mentally fatigued, but still want to do a workout:

  • Option 1: go in ERG mode, train your muscles and kinda rest your brain;
  • Option 2: go in resitance mode and try to hold the prescribed power with your fatigued brain having to focus on that.
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I don’t buy this at all.

I think he’s too locked into an old school mentality. Erg mode I’d relate closer to riding hills, you’re locked into a resistance yes but it’s your responsibility to maintain a cadence that doesn’t lock up your legs too low or fatigue you when the cadence is too high, it’s not as if the machine is doing the work for you. Yes there are benefits to both erg and resistance and without a doubt you’re going to have fitness gains by using Erg mode.

Either way I don’t support Tom’s claims at all.

Also, can we talk about all these people that come onto Trainer Road forum and talk Zwift?? go away please, it’s not our fault that your video game does not have a forum to support your training, be a part of the solution and help others train or you’re a part of the problem and just plugging up the feed.

J

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Well my n=1 experience is that it isn’t any better with 11 speed on a dumb trainer. I found a lot of workouts, but especially cadence drills, always a compromise between cadence and target power. I generally overshot target power, which I’m not necessarily sure is a good thing. For short and micro VO2 max intervals, I could never maintain cadence inbetween them as per the workout text. Chad normally says try to maintain the 100plus cadence in between.

That’s just on the workouts - for low intensity rides I really enjoy being able to mentally switch off and watch a show or film. Different to the mentally switching off outside, but I still find it beneficial.

I couldn’t go back to resistance only at this stage - erg mode was the next game changer for me after a couple of years doing TrainerRoad. It’s also enabled me to use an old hack 7 speed as permanant turbo bike, which has defintely meant I’ve ridden more (both frequency and duration).

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@JKEMPFREY, I recommend that you reconsider the comments in your final paragraph.

  • Zwift actually does have their own forum.
  • The TrainerRoad forum is open and contains discussion about many things related to training.
  • Importantly, it is not restricted to TrainerRoad users or TrainerRoad discussion only.
    • There is no explicit or implicit requirement to that effect, even though TR is the host.
  • We actively discuss competing products and services for the benefit of all involved, including TrainerRoad and it’s users.
    • These may highlight pros and cons of the alternatives and help stir discussion about direction. I think there is real value in reviewing these, even if they only serve to validate the chosen direction of TR.
  • We also have an “Uncategorized” section that is effectively our Off-Topic area.
    • It contains our non-training related discussions, as well as some that may be training related, but not appropriate in the other categories. Some of the Zwift related discussions are in this area.
  • There are many topics and discussions here, and people are free to participate in them or not, at their discretion.

Disclaimer: I am not a TrainerRoad employee. I am an active forum member with interest in promoting active, positive and helpful discussion. If I have misspoken or overstepped my role as a moderator with what I stated above, I will update and correct via direction from TR reps.

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As Chad mentioned, we want the TrainerRoad Forum to be a place for healthy discussion for all athletes, even non-TR users :slight_smile: . Discussion related to our competitors is a real and valid point of discussion, and we aim to avoid any and all censorship of ideas and opinions.

Based on a massive amount of data from all of our users, as well as plenty of personal experience, I have to agree with you on that one :wink:

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Based on the fact that I about fell off my bike after the final interval of Spencer this morning in erg mode, I’d say Tom’s off his rocker.

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Sorry, I was not meaning to offend anyone. If having the conversation with “Zwifters” does have a positive impact on improvement of the TR platform then of course I support that.

how about we call Zwift ‘he (it) who must not be named’?

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“The app that must not be named…” seems better. :stuck_out_tongue:

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It’s interesting (funny, pathetic, wrong, right?) for us non pro’s to try and train/think like a pro.

To me it’s more important to put in the time and be consistent. Be it Zwift, ego mode, or just riding old school do that for you that’s the most important thing to keep in mind. Sweating the small stuff (guilty) is just a distraction.

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I guess being a Pro Athlete doesn’t qualify you to be a Pro Trainer.

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Fitting typo when talking about Danielson.

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Haha!

Fascinating to read an endless discussion about whether mode A or B is the way to heaven - when basically all apps allow you to use either. You want ERG? Knock yourself out. You don’t? Don’t use it. You want both? Go ahead and shift mode every 30 seconds if that’s your thing.

I’m sure most of us are not making it to the Tour de France anyways.

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While most of this discussion and the actual differences in this specific case are likely minimal at best, I don’t think we need to have the target set to the highest race in the land to justify looking for the best way to do something.

I bet that the vast majority of us are all working with limited time and budgets. It is completely rational (to me) that we try to find the methods and tools to make the most of our limited resources. Because of these shortcomings, I’d even venture to say that we stand to benefit more from making the “optimal” choices than some pros that are looking for the finest of improvements and have massive support behind them.

Main point being that we don’t have to be headed to the championships to make the search for better ways to train. I want the most from my 8 hours per week and if there are choices that can make measurable improvements, I hope to find them.

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If your goal is to enjoy time on the bike, have fun in group rides, and do the occasional fondo I’m sure ERG / NO ERG does not make a difference. It’s just about having fun and who cares about ERG…

If your goal is to compete and win races at an elite (amateur) level, being able to control power is important and that is what Tom teaches. In order to control the power you make you cannot use ERG mode, and that is why Tom does not recommend it. In addition, controlling power during transitions is especially important (not dropping power when you shift). I used ERG mode for years before hiring Tom to coach me. I personally have had great success moving away from ERG. But for the athlete that has different goals I honestly don’t think it matters. ERG / No ERG… Just get on the bike and have fun training.

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This is nonsensical. Every cyclist can ‘control power’. Using erg during the winter doesn’t make anyone forget how to push the pedals normally once they’re out on the roads.

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