Haven’t felt or observed that, although in the beginning a couple years ago I worked on replicating “road feel” and ended up using large chainring for all trainer rides. A side benefit is that with the large chainring I’m seeing same FTP both inside and outside.
However I have observed lower gains during TR sweet spot base 1 and TR traditional base when I’m only doing indoor rides. In other words, I’ve obtained bigger FTP gains when mixing outside riding with inside riding. That appears to be a result a) age related decline of vo2max, and b) lack of any intensity in TR SSB-1, TB1, and TB2. Next time around I will be mixing in some lighter/easier vo2 work to keep that system warm.
You’re in ERG mode outside if you’re on a constant grade and hold the same cadence (with no wind).
I think you misunderstand ERG mode. You don’t just turn your brain off and lock in just like you don’t “just turn your brain off and lock in” on a 10% grade.
Here’s another thing to blow your mind…on most smart trainers ERG mode has a MORE variable power output compared to resistance mode.
Most smart trainers aren’t very good at holding you to a specific wattage with all the small variations you do, especially at VO2 max and above. If you’re in resistance mode and trying to hit a specific power you’re less variable and more steady…I’d say steadier than you could be outside.
Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
It would make for a good study. Unfortunately, I don’t have lab access or a group of test subjects. I’m postulating a thought that occurred to me after thinking about the benefit of riding in resistance mode or on the rollers. Again, I have no data, but I do think that ERG mode might not be doing a good job of preparing your body and proprioception for efforts outdoors.
If you need data to buy into my hypothesis you’re not getting it. Doesn’t mean my thoughts/opinion brings nothing to the table.
I believe the main goal was to generate a discussion - which goal was clearly attained. Now as to the quality of the content thereof, that’s quite another topic.
Which is literally almost never the case for anyone, but I get what you’re saying.
Despite never having ridden in ERG mode I would assume this to be the case when you’re trying to maintain a power target.
I don’t know, when I’m deep into a climb I pretty much turn off everything and ride in that moment. Perhaps this is the closest real world example of riding in ERG mode.
I can tell you I have done years (decades) of resistance mode training, and a couple of years of erg mode training, so I can compare the outcome. And the answer is simple: training program selection and my adherence to it has had a lot of impact on my fitness come outside ride season; and I’ve seen no effect whatsoever from using or not using erg. I do Zwift group rides once or twice a week (in resistance mode, of course), and 3 TR training sessions a week (all in erg), and I can safely say that I’m no better nor worse at maintaining power in either case.
You don’t seem open for doscussion though. I just see you constantly trying to poke holes in everyone’s posts and invalidating their ideas while repeating that you just have a hypothesis. It’s a bit confusing
I don’t feel like reading 237 posts to find out if this was said but Steve Neal recommends doing all your work NOT in ERG mode except ramp tests. Requires more focus to maintain the power just like you would if riding outside trying to hold a given power on a flat or a climb and having to shift and vary your cadence. I’m not sure if I have an opinion either way but I can say I’ve been liking doing my rides in manual mode and shifting/varying cadence.
I’ll also say I race marathon and XC MTB as well as Gravel and I am looking at my power in those instances during the race and pacing myself off of the power. Unless I’m at the front of the race I’m needing to pace myself, it’s not a just do everything you can to hold on to the group until you can’t situation like road racing is. I definitely pace off power and try to hold a more consistent power on climbs in marathon races so I can meter the effort to not implode in hour 5 of a 6 hour race.
I haven’t invalidated a single idea. I’ve more or less spent the last hour of my life trying to make it clear that I have a hypothesis, one that isn’t founded on a bunch of lab tests. Which I think is ok, after-all, how do lab tests happen? A hypothesis or an idea. Some of you folks aren’t keen on disruption or aversion to a prescribed idea. TR users LOVE ERG mode. Don’t question it. I don’t need a bunch of saddle time with ERG mode to suggest that it could possibly be inferior to resistance mode. It’s obvious which one is more akin to riding outdoors.
OK, attempting to re-open my mind and understand the negative ERG claims:
Resistance
Assuming constant and unchanging resistance (like a flat road or climb with even grade, with steady or no wind… or like an indoor trainer at a given speed from a given cadence):
If I pedal faster than the current cadence, power will increase.
If I pedal slower than the current cadence, power will decrease.
Assuming the goal is to hold a given power for a desired effort:
I can maintain my current cadence and all is good.
If I slow down my cadence, I am putting out too little power?
If I speed up my cadence, I am putting out too much power?
And the supposition is that by doing all or most workouts in Resistance mode, a rider will be better able to control the situation above?
Additionally, I presume people claim there are “gains” in handling the changes in power up and down the power spectrum when being forced to control cadence (and most likely shifting) together in this entire process?
Sure, everyone has opinions… pros (good, bad, new, old), coaches (big and small), and every other person under the sun.
I’m also able to look at those opinions, along with my own experience, and consider which ones I see as more valid or has more pertinence to my situation.
I don’t buy my socks just because Joe Blow says their fast, and I sure don’t pick my training choices in that single minded way either.
If that’s how my post came across, then I severely missed the mark.
My point was that in the same post, you both stated you haven’t invalidated a single idea, and you do the exact opposite by affirming that TR users love erg mode (when there’s a control to select the mode), that they don’t question it (I see 240 posts that contradict that statement), and that it’s obvious which mode is more akin to riding outdoor (implying that it’s superior).
Untrue and unfair. Many of us have tried to engage in the discussion (now and many times in the prior sections of the OP above).
Some of us asked for clarification and more info on the claims beyond “I think it’s better because is more the same than more different…” types of posts. They were honest requests to understand the point of view and potentially offer rebuttals to explain our thoughts.
And you apparently love Resistance mode. Don’t question it.
There are many users with smart trainers who still use Resistance mode. IIRC, Nate and Jonathan, among many others I have seen stated in this thread and elsewhere, still use it. And even more use a mix of ERG and Resistance for some or parts of various workouts.
Painting this argument as an “us vs them” in totality, with no blending or middle ground is a mistake.
Seems that you didn’t really have an supposition exactly, but more of a statement to make.
So the ultimate point to your OP and supporting posts was to come in here and tell us how wrong we all are and are wasting our time on the trainer?
And as mentioned above, there is a not so subtle implication in that statement… that one is better than the other.
Since we’re debating why resistance mode is superior, am I allowed to bring in my meager personal experience and state why I prefer erg mode over it, since I’ve extensively tried both?
Compliance.
You have to maintain a power level (that’s admittedly absurdly high) for a certain time (way too long). You’re about to blow up. And then…
a) you slow down, the power drops and you get temporary relief, before kicking yourself in the rear end and pushing back up to the power target - you are in Resistance mode; or
b) you slow down, the power drops, but immediately after the load increases, making your life even more miserable, and bringing you down the spiral of death towards zero cadence and infinite load - you are in Erg mode.
My personal experience is simple: my brain knows which of these 2 scenarios I’m in. And it acts accordingly. It tells the legs to not even think about slowing down.
