Pleased to read I’m not the only one struggling with the ramp test to provide an FTP for Long Distance. After a lot (for me) of VO2 work at the end of summer in prep for a CX season that didn’t happen, I was testing around 300w. The move to more aerobic work had me turn in a result of 269 not long after. Ignoring it and keeping my FTP at 300 (I stayed consistently on the bike and felt just as strong) sees me still hitting all my workouts with no issue. The equally dreaded 20min test will be my protocol during this Tri focussed year.
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I’m not racing long in 2020. Using 2020 to achieve some fitness goals as part of a plan to race 2021 Ironman Texas (my first year in M50-54 age group). I mentioned this in post 471, but this was back in November. Sorry for the confusion.
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That was my original idea, give plenty of easy work but full the schedule. That way if something gets in the way, it is actually still rather beneficial in the overall picture. I just happened to have two months where i didn’t miss any of my planned workouts. Being consistent now makes me less neurotic about missing a workout closer to my actual races.
Also in the past whenever I had a planned day off, life would get in the way on a day scheduled for a key workout and it would drive me a bit batty and overcompensate afterwards.
@Alen that view is just garmin connects calendar view.
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I asked this in the podcast thread but alas I didn’t get read out
using plan builder my pre copenhagen plan goes
base, build, base, speciality
the second base sees me drop from almost 3 hour runs to 1 hour runs and then as I return to speciality this is almost immediately reversed. This seems to be the route to burn out and injury what does everyone else think?
I’d have to see the plan to have a more informed decision, but speaking broadly: I’d trust your judgement. TR plans are excellent for cycling, but their run and swim progression leave a lot to be desired. Even factoring in periodization, I can’t imagine why you’d spend weeks or months in the 13-21mi long run (I assume) range and then drop to weeks of 6mi long runs. Excluding things like taper, rest weeks, etc. Can you screenshot the plan? But yes, sounds weird.
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Depends what you are looking for @JoeX. You know that consistency in testing is best. Appreciate the algorithms of the ramp test but there is something about the 20min test that seems more appropriate to long distance tri.
That said, there are quite a few variables on the day and leading up to a 20min test that can skew the numbers.
There you go, talked myself out of it, maybe mixing it up is best.
Probably not my most helpful post of the year!
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this is why I am very weary of plan builder for triathlon cases. IMO depending on your training methodology it could be okay or not okay; if you plan to say focus your training on bike and you have a very good running base, I could see that being okay… but I am of the opinion you are better served with long runs or just more volume running through the entire thing.
I have basically came to the conclusion that sometimes you have to adjust your training based on your own experience and the difficulty with these pre-made plans is that they are just that; pre-made. You cannot get the customization of a plan that is tailored to your needs unless you A) take a plan and Frankenstein it or B) Hire a coach. A) is what I do, B) is what you could do… for $$$
IMO I use TR as a guide. Their bike sessions are fantastic, but tbh their running and swimming dosnt really work for me. Its not detailed nor developed enough and I am sure if I followed it to a T I would be fast, but I feel like I get more value out of subbing my own running and swimming into my plans and using the TR bike plans as a base to build around; the plans give (in general) enough leeway to slot multisport workouts, of course with respect to intensity etc. So if say I have a really hard weekend ride on TR… I may push that long run to next week/a day, or cut a bit from my long run. Alternatively if its a long slow burn TR session, I do the long run the next day if I feel okay. Typically the valley and peaks of the TR bike sessions line up well for me so far. I have subbed harder rides for some rides because I just know I can do more intensity. Its a personal thing.
Anyways I am on the boat that you should be building running volume constantly through your training. At least keep a long run bi-weekly and keep the volume high. I personally work better on sub 2 hour long runs back to back instead of 1 3 hour run; I can handle the volume better and I feel like for me, I do not gain much from the 3 hour runs vs a 2 hour run and a 1.5-2 hour run back-to-back. Its a common strategy to gain more miles without putting huge single mileage days in, which has personally led to me having to take more recovery.
Basically you have two options; follow the plan or alter the plan. I dont think anyone here can say whats right for you, but I think its always good to have more running milage than less. I suffer from not being able to transfer my HM times to Marathon times due simply to a lack of volume, and I have had great success lately on more frequent runs. My HM times should be a sub 3 open marathon time. I feel like with your running volume in that plan, there is no way I could nail my marathon goals even though I have the speed to theoretically do it.
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I am new to the thread. Have been using trainer road since 2015. Will be doing my 7th ironman at wisconsin this year. I did im wisconsin last year in 10:42 male 35-39. Used tr high volume full base, mid volume build and speciality last year, along with barry b running and the tr swim plan. This year i hired a coach who is using tr for cycling which is nice. Hoping for another pr and ultimate goal is kona someday but trying not to get a head of myself. Love reading this thread and seeing people achieve their goals. Cheers to 2020
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Ah, yes, good point.
I guess the biggest question on these forums is about measuring progress - absolutely, pick one protocol, and one power meter, for consistency.
I’m exploring where my threshold (a debatable term itself) is and how long I can hold it, and just how hard I can go in an Olympic - close to an hour effort if I can get the stars aligned, I hope.
I can’t remember where I heard it, but a few years ago the idea of runs no longer than 1h45 was bandied about for IM training. I’m currently in a plan of weekly 2h45-3h15 runs (no injury yet fingers crossed) but I’m likely to look back into that middle of the year. Something about the diminishing physiological returns and increasing injury risk.
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Hi Luke and welcome! 
That’s a great time - how did you align the six BarryP runs with the four bike and swims?
Tbh I really didn’t have the running and tr down to a science which is why I got a coach this year to see what I can achieve and how much I was doing wrong. I would run 6 times a week and my one long and one of the medium runs which required more recovery would have their own days. The other 4 runs would be off the bike. I would build the mileage over the course of the season. I have mainly just tried to stay consistent day in and out for the past 5-6 year and tr has been a cornerstone for that!
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Update for me so far. January was not great due to work travel, some brutal work projects that took a lot of time, getting sick and nursing a sore calf.
Was going to start swimming in Jan but that is starting tomorrow and I will get to get back on track for my end of June 70.3 CDA.
Glad to see everyone is doing well and training is good also. Keep it up.
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Thanks man, I’m pretty excited. Not only for the race but also to be back to Muscat after 10 years. Definitely appreciate the support from the gang here. And you know what, I bet your half Mary will be fun as well!
After seeing the pics form 70.3 Dubai I checked water temps and it appears there is a 50% chance the swim will be wetsuit legal. Sub30, here I come 
I’ve absolutely killed my last big run set on Friday, unfortunately today’s Polar Bear was a complete disaster and has shaken my confidence on the bike a bit, not sure what to do on the bike for the remaining 1.5 weeks.
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Not everyone is a fan of LS, but I think this is an interesting exploration of his swim at Kona. I’d love to do this kind of stuff. 
Lots of questions posed; he goes in apparently dehydrated still loses nearly a kilo. Pees four times in the water, I’m suspecting he took on sea water and the body was expelling it.
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Here is what I did when combining BarryP w/TR high volume.
Tues - short (easy) run
Wed - med (tempo) run (half marathon pace)
Thurs- short (easy) run
Fri - med (easy) run
Sat - short (easy) often skipped this run due to fatigue
Sun - long (easy)
TR bike plan actually fit perfectly w/the above. Tue is typically some kind of supra-threshold or vo2 work which suprisingly did not really affect the Wed tempo run. No bike on Wed is nice which allows you to focus on the run. The remainder of the week is easy runs allowing you to really focus on your bike sessions. I’m not a big believer in bricks, but sometimes did them on Fri AM to free up my evening. Long runs top out at 2hrs for me.
Swims could be on Mon, Wed, Sat (instead of easy run), Sun
BarryP is about frequency which in my case helps w/injury prevention. However, I would say the key to getting all of the above to work is recovery. You have to be getting enough rest, nutrition, and not have too much life stress.
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I hate testing ftp. I made a post about the baby step ftp raises.
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I get that but am wondering how this fits together with 6 Runs per week? This block I’ve done 4 (2 easy, one long, one interval) combined with half distance MV and it almost destroyed me. Adding two more run session to that plan and I would dig myself a hole too deep. How do you recover all that work?
Mon - swim, easy run
Tue - bike, med run
Wed - swim, easy run
Thur - bike, long run
Fri - rest (sometimes swim from Sat)
Sat - swim, bike, med run
Sun - long bike, easy run.
That’s how I did it when my running was good. Basically a 4-5 mile run should feel like child’s play if you want to do this right. It’s not for the faint of heart.
I’ve been considering this, and I think you’re right. My new plan is the following:
- ~200cal/hour of clif shot blocks (I’ve had plenty of success running with these
- ~90-180cal/hour of race-provided gatorade, alternating between aid stations as needed
Total: ~300-400 / hour
I’m estimating about 6oz of gatorade in each cup (~45cal/cup). At my (hopefully) ~8:00/mile, that puts me doing roughly 4 per hour at the top end and probably at least 2. In training, I’ve handled it all totally fine, and I’m going to do a few race-pace long bricks (think 4 hour ride, 2.5 hour run) with this strategy and see how it goes.
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