Interesting
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Why not just breathe every 2 strokes? I used to do bilateral breathing every 3 strokes but the max oxygen you can get is every 2 strokes.
I think breathing on both sides is over rated. The only time I ever need to breathe on my non dominant side is if there is a strong sun or chop on my dominant side.
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Hmm, interesting. I’ll give it a go but I’m in @Alen side of the fence for now.
I’m not sure lack of oxygen is my limiter at the moment anyway.
If you have a stroke rate of 60 strokes/min, breathing every 2 strokes gives you 30 breaths per minute. Tell me this, would you breath 30 times a minute during the bike and run? I highly doubt your claim that the “max oxygen you can get is every 2 strokes.” Do you have a source on that?
Good job on the work. Out of curiosity, what are your swim and run pace ranges. Based on the 5ish remaining hours after your bike training, I’m guessing that you are averaging 1:30ish per 100 yard pace on the swim and 7:30-8:00 min pace on the run. Beyond the “average” what is your easy pace, threshold pace etc?
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I’ve experimented with the 2-3 swim breathing pattern since Gary Hall Sr first posted it on slowtwitch years ago. I have trouble with the back-to-back breaths on opposite sides, doesn’t seem like enough time to exhale. I always revert back to 2 stroke breathing. I’ve been fooling around with it again in the last week since Monty over there brought it up again. I’m mainly doing it as primarily 2 stroke breathing with the back-to-back breath at some point mid-pool to switch sides (I guess to try and keep my stroke “balanced”) and do the back-to-back breaths right before a turn to sneak on an extra breath. Seems to be easier with fewer switches for me.
Regarding the 1-3 breathing pattern (bilateral 3). I could never imagine racing with it. I have historically used it as a “governor” to keep me slower during my warmup.
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Mmm, Id agree. Might be good for maximal pace 50s and 100s? I tend to listen to SwimSmooth so my main sets are at most CSS -5s or -10s.
I only go really hard on 25s and 50s so not long enough to have an oxygen debt, I don’t think.
Something to play with though 
Thanks- and very good guesses. I swim in the mid/ low 130s for a typical TR workout of 100 yd repeats on five seconds rest. But if I swim after biking or running, it can often be in upper 130s. Swimming is not my sport and I tend to struggle more in the pool when I’m tired than I do with biking and running.
My running pace is 8:00-8:15 pace for a long run, 7:50s for a base run, and high 6s/ low 7s for fast runs. In terms of races, right now I’m a low 19-minute 5k; I might be able to get under 1:30 for a half marathon, but probably more like 1:31/32.
I converted to triathlons from a background in running a few years ago and am amazed at how triathlon training provides running speed and fitness. I only run four times a week and I’m not that much slower than I was as a pure runner. I’m strongly considering doing a stand-alone marathon after my Ironman; it would be my first in five years.
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I misread your original proposal. Now that I read it again, you get more breaths with what you describe. But the problem there is a lot of every 1 stroke breathing going on. For one that would get me dizzy if I did that for a long set. Secondly, I think that would limit your stroke rate. It may be ok at 60 but currently my easy pace is at 66 and most of the time I’m in the 75-82 range. I would have to try it but I’ve done drills of entire pool length of 1 stroke breathing and it’s very uncomfortable for me.
my Swim training has been next to nothing over the last few years
I hardy swim after my A race. then don’t swim again until May/June then I do a couple of continuous swims per week in prep of my race …
… i’m about 1:09 to 1:20 during a IM although I can do the distance about 1:05 stand alone and have done a few 5k and 10k swim races.
I’m such a week cyclist, i need to focus there
Looks like your training is going well for Ironman Texas. If your cycling is comparable to your swim and run fitness you have a good chance of sub 10 on the fast Ironman Texas course, assuming that the rest of your training continues to go well. What age group are you competing in?
I think that breathing pattern during swimming is related to rhythm, physiology, hydrodynamics and muscle balance/overuse injuries/stroke symmetry.
Swimming is very much a rhythm sport. Whichever breathing pattern you choose needs to be trained enough in training to be effective on race day. This is a key area that beginners struggle with, basically they have not swam enough to “pay their dues” to develop a comfortable rhythm.
Physiology- a human being at rest breaths 12-20 breaths per minute. During exercise this often increases to 40-50 breaths per minute. This is partly due to taking in oxygen and partly due to blowing off carbon dioxide which has to be blown off at a rate directly related to the amount of carbohydrates burned as this is a byproduct of glycolysis. Your optimal physiological breathing rate is less related to your breath per stroke ratio as it does to breaths per minute ratio. Considering that there are effective stroke rates along a continuum, your stroke rate should be factored into what is an optimal breathing pattern to meet your physiological need. There are NO restricted breathing patterns for cycling or running— we are free to breathe as needed to meet the physiological need.
Hydrodynamics- the act of breathing causes drag. In short events like the 50 restricted breathing is fastest due hydrodynamic drag and in the 25 no breathing is generally fastest. Most people swimming 100 or longer should breathe when they need to. Pool swimmers often restrict breathing into and out of turns due to this awareness of hydrodynamics.
Most swimmers are going to have a strong side that is easier to breathe to. Unfortunately this can lead to muscle imbalances, injuries and swimming of course. Being able to breathe to either side can be beneficial in staying injury free and being a more well rounded swimmer with with improved feel for the water. You can balance your stroke with bilateral 3 swimming, the Gary Hall St 2-3 breathing or simply doing 2 stroke breathing to the right going down the pool and 2 stroke breathing to the left coming back.
Overall, it’s good to be able to change up your breathing patterns and be able to breathe to either side. This can be a good tool in the toolbox on race day depending on water conditions, where the sun is and sighting needs. Fortunately a well designed swim workout has several segments of varying training focus. This provides the opportunity to practice different breathing patterns. We should all strive to be well rounded swimmers. It will make race day faster and less stressful.
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I just aiming to get in around 11 hours, but thanks for the encouragement. I’ll be very happy with anything in the 10s. It’s my first one. I’m in the 45-49 age group.
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Ive often wondered about this, but I’ve never counted. I’m sitting down and I just counted eight for the minute.
Maybe a little hypochondria creeping in but Ive suspected my rate of breathing is too relaxed for the efforts I put out. Until you get to VO2max levels where there’s no choice I suppose. Belly breathing comes into it also I think, which I adopted in my teens during a few years of martial arts training.
12-20 is a range of breathing for an average adult. Much like 60-100 bpm is the range of resting heart rate for an average adult. It is not uncommon for endurance trained adults be under 60 bpm and probably could be assumed that a well conditioned person might breathe less than 12 at rest. I work as a firefighter/EMT and when we count patient’s respirations per minute as part of their vital signs, it’s often 15-20.
Deep breathing exercises as seen in martial arts and yoga can be a complement to our training. Our training generally stimulates our sympathetic nervous system and depending on the stress in our life, too much activation of the sympathetic nervous system puts our autonomic nervous system out of balance. Deep breathing exercises can engage the parasympathetic nervous system and keep our autonomic nervous system more in balance. These days that heart rate variability has become mainstream, people have quantifiable metrics to assess the balance of the autonomic nervous system and when out of balance deep breathing is a good tool in the toolbox to try and restore balance.
as I responded in the thread, it depends on the pace. 30/minute actually suits me just fine for most of a race. That is 3 in 3 out running / cycling and I usually try to do that for at least the first few miles of an OLY distance run to keep from starting out too fast. Even when doing VO2 efforts, I’ve found that I breath 2 in 2 out. My training breathing pattern on the run and bike is 6 in 6 out or roughly 15/min.
There’s definitely a fine line between making the actual stroke slower by breathing vs breathing less with regards to swim speed. To do it right by breathing that much, you’ve got to have a pretty smooth stroke. In training, I usually try to get extra breaths before/after flip turns and you can still see all the little spikes in HR from the breath holding when I do wear my HR monitor swimming. The first 2-3 weeks of switching from breathing every 2 to every 3 was pretty tough, but it’s really evened out my stroke and got me to time my breaths much better and do a better exhale.
I just read monty’s thread and am fascinated to try it!
Don’t overthink it, just breath as much as you need too for your given pace I reckon.
For me that tends to be every 2 strokes at a hard effort, every 3 at an easier effort with a good amount of 2/3 breathing in between. The distance is less relevant for me - as a later onset swimmer with legs that rapidly want to head down to the bottom, swimming without a wetsuit takes much more effort than with one so all distances including IM with non wetsuit swims I’ll be breathing every other stroke most of the time. In races where I can wear a wetsuit I’ll tend towards every 3 or 3/2 but it’s not something I’ve ever given much thought to. The same holds true training in the pool.
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To date, I’m mostly influenced by the world champion open water swimmers I’ve seen breathing unilaterally, but it sounds like this has legs. Not for this reason but I’ve experimented breathing consecutive strokes when I’ve needed to, but in the pool deliberately it has been awkward.
My main concern now, having read the threads and watched the vids, is exhaling enough to make the consecutive breath worthwhile.
If it works I can already imagine motoring much harder and longer. 
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While we’re talking swimming, I’m about to go back to the swim.com app, for Apple Watch.
Anyone else using it or got a better Watch app?