[image] FTP, VO2max and VLaMax: what triathletes need to know with Sebastian Weber |... Sebastian Weber is a sports scientist and highly successful coach, in both professional sports (having worked with athletes like Peter Sagan, Tony Martin, and André Greipek) and with age-group endurance athletes. He is also the co-founder of the... Estimated reading time: 17 minutes A bit more (and IMO better) deep-dive into VLamax than the Velonews podcast. Personally, answered most of the follow-up questions I had after listening to the Velonews interview. (Chapeau! @Mikael_Eriksson)

[image] Bioteknik: not doing high intensity seems to have lowered my vlamax, but vo2max has declined. Capacity through high volume is there though to make a big jump in power so may get to last year’s ftp, but at almost half the level of lactate. This is exactly what I’m after. Guess that means I’ll have to go back and read all your posts!

Could you give some details as what tests you used with lactate meter to guide your training? I don’t have a lactate meter yet and didn’t do incsyd testing but I’m very interested in the physiology behind training. I’ve described my training in the thread about interview with Steve Neal and my focus for now is increasing my VO2Max (capacity). If you can share what you did it would be very helpful!

[image] Bioteknik: Also included by the science of winning combined with some old school lydiard basics i decided to hold off on most suprathreshold intervals from October until now. I did do some 4x8 intervals but those were still well below the normal vo2 power range. The Aerobic Capacity Training in chapter 2 (Science of Winning) includes anaerobic capacity exercises or short intense efforts as part of longer z2 work. Its not clear from what you wrote if you avoided all suprathreshold work, or if you view “suprathreshold intervals” as synonymous with things like 4x8 intervals.

[image] Bioteknik: Cliffs notes, not doing high intensity seems to have lowered my vlamax, but vo2max has declined. From TTS198 Training structure, periodisation and the science of winning with Jan Olbrecht, PhD | EP#198 [image] That sounds like what you wrote. On the other hand, from The Science of Winning [image] that doesn’t sound like what happened. just a few immediate thoughts from reading your post.

Well I said most, not all suprathreshold work. I did almost none between Oct-Jan, then did 6x4 5x5, 4x7 and then 4x7, 4x7, 4x8 @ 105% target as my intensity each week. But the intensity of the 105% was actually self-selected as the power I could maintain throughout. It started right around 300 watts, but as the intervals got longer and the rest got shorter, it fell to around 285 or so. You highlighted some of the chapter, but I believe there’s also a blurb that doing too much aerobic capacity work can also increase your anaerobic capacity as the intermittent sprints are both a potent stimulus for both aerobic and anaerobic capacity. In his swimming examples, he rarely sees a detriment to having a low anaerobic capacity, as in the majority of the distances, he argues that having a higher anaerobic contribution at threshold means you tend to be faster. The longest swimming event in major international competition is only 15 minutes, and he talks only briefly in the book about how the distance swimmers need to do things slightly different. The reason though that the work increases aerobic capacity is that you have activated all your muscle fibers, so instead of doing intermittent sprints, I added volume at the end of most of my workouts. First with SSB1 from Oct to end of Dec, then I did a threshold/polarized VO2 block. Just because I wasn’t doing the interspersed hard efforts with high volume, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a positive effect on capacity. Volume in itself is a stimulus for capacity, but I didn’t want to also stimulate anaerobic with the hard efforts. I think we also need to differentiate VO2 max and power at VO2 max. I’ve never tested VO2, so I don’t know if you can truly reach your max VO2 without highly developed power capability. It seems like Olbrecht is using an estimate of VO2 max based on submaximal effort like the firstbeat calcs on a garmin. So in that sense, my VO2 has stayed the same by power:hr ratio… but without developing the ability to sustain power at the high levels of O2 uptake is it really your VO2 max? The terminology gets really confusing, and I think that was one think Mikael didn’t like about the interview.

I have been including my lactate testing protocol and results here adding to darth shivious’: [image] Lactate Testing - Data and Results Training Edit: Anyone with lactate data that wants to share or discuss is welcome to post in this thread!!! Most of you know what MLSS testing is so won’t clutter with details here. For those not familiar, FasCat Training has a nice post on the topic and web search will turn up numerous articles on the topic. Background: Myself and several buddies are gearing up for “serious” runs at 40km TT PRs and/or USA Masters National and/or the New Jersey Time Trial Series in 2019. All master’s age athletes age…

[image] Bioteknik: You highlighted some of the chapter, but I believe there’s also a blurb that doing too much aerobic capacity work can also increase your anaerobic capacity yes its in the second screenshot above, second bullet item beginning with “possibly in an increase of anaerobic capacity”. [image] Bioteknik: I think we also need to differentiate VO2 max and power at VO2 max. I’ve never tested VO2, so I don’t know if you can truly reach your max VO2 without highly developed power capability. I’m sure you know there are cycling coaches that use a working proxy for power at vo2max - usually a 5 min or 6 min max effort. For non-elite enthusiasts like myself, I think there is a lot of value in taking a pragmatic/practical approach (estimating via max efforts) as opposed to going into a lab and getting hooked up to a cart. Its also fun to discuss :slight_smile: so thank you!

[image] Bioteknik: In his swimming examples, he rarely sees a detriment to having a low anaerobic capacity, as in the majority of the distances, he argues that having a higher anaerobic contribution at threshold means you tend to be faster. Sorry, I don’t understand this. Wouldn’t a higher anaerobic contribution at threshold mean a higher anaerobic capacity, not lower?

yeah, that must be a typo. Most of those swimming events are 1-5 minutes, so he noticed that the faster swimmers at those distances tended to have higher lactate values.

I thought I remember there being a table that said that the aerobic capacity workouts he prescribed DID raise anaerobic capacity as well. They raise both aerobic and anaerobic capacity. The bullet you quoted is saying aerobic power went down possibly because anaerobic capacity went up. However I did not say I did the aerobic capacity workouts as he prescribed in the science of winning, but more so what I was doing appears to have maintained my capacity from last season. I actually specifically avoided those due to the increase in VLamax that tends to come with them. Both Olbrecht’s book, and Lydiard approaches have the athletes doing more LIT in offseason with waiting until the last 8-16 weeks before competition before doing the really hard stuff.

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That Triathlon Show | EP#169 - FTP, VO2max and VLaMax

Training

Bioteknik April 8, 2020, 8:54pm 252

I have been including my lactate testing protocol and results here adding to darth shivious’:

Topic		Replies	Views
My INSCYD report Training choosing-a-plan	291	32079	April 4, 2023
Conclusions knowing Lactate Rate / VLaMax Training	35	9659	February 22, 2019
Muscle mass, oxidative capacity and effective VO2max in highly trained athletes Training	89	6704	November 12, 2024
Magic VLaMax training Training	71	4489	July 14, 2026
Help me make sense of my recent VO2 & Lactate results Training	20	4228	June 21, 2020

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