99.9% of my rides are inside and on TR (Erg Mode). since 2018 ive used the Tacx Flux S - and this is the only turbo trainer ive ever riden…until now.
I thought it was maybe time to treat myself to a new turbo - Tacx Neo 3M and also to join zwift and do my workouts over there. Afterall, zwift and TR can now be used together!
So a few days ago i get on the new Neo 3M for the first time and it feels totally different - wayyyyyy harder to keep up the power than my old flux s. I knew there would be a bit of a difference but ive got from being able to do 288w intervals fairly easily to barely being able to hold 250w. Ive even had to abandon a workout today because of it. granted, ive also had an irregular routine and some time off recently but how is my usual zone 2 power (220w) now putting my heart rate up to 165bpm!?
Other than the new turbo and joining zwift, nothing else has changed (sleep and nutrition etc all unchanged). i dont think im unwell (oura ring doesnt detect anything unnormal). My old turbo was always calibrated before use and i really believe my numbers were correct.
I dont really know what it is im asking here, i just feel really low about it all. I had the excitment of a new top line turbo and somewhere down the line i seem to have gone from a 303 FTP to not even being able to hold 8 minute 250w intervals.
the only things i can think here are:
im sick/burnt out and dont know that i am
old turbo was reading SIGNIFICANTLY higher than it should (i dont believe this to be the case, i ride with others outside sometimes and know where i fit amoungst the pack)
the neos back/front side/side motion is leaching a lot of my power
the new turbo is causing a different pedalling technique/recruiting different muscles (old flywheel vs virtual?)
Zwift is doing something different than TR is doing
I guess the only thing i can try is going back on the old turbo and see if my old numbers come back? But im also wanting to give the new trainer a proper chance - so tomorrow i think ill do a 2-3 hour very low zone 2 ride on it.
Has anyone experienced anything like this before and has a similar experience?
Dusting off my old saying: “Whenever you change power data related items, you need to retest your FTP”.
There are many possible triggers but the one in play here is at least two-fold.
You have a far better measurement of power with the Neo than the Flux. Despite claims, the Flux is a known deviator for power data so it should be considered questionable IMO. The Neo on the other hand is widely regarded for it’s general accuracy (despite some special cases) and is likely more accurate.
Trainer changes in the form of flywheel, motion and such may all impact the final value you can produce on either.
TLDR: your old data is now old and your new FTP is very likely different now. Unless you have a separate power meter as a gauge, you just have to live with what the Neo gives you. Redo an FTP test of your choice or adjust manually, and move on. You should consider creating a new season in TR if you care about tracking your power PR’s there, since you have a new “measuring stick” that is not the same as the old one.
I own a Kickr 2017, Neo 2T and Kick Core. All are within 2% of what my Assioma pedal read. I prefer the feel of the Kickr’s to the Neo. The Kickr 2017 felt the easiest to do long Sweet Spot intervals on because I could stick the big is a big gear and keep that fly wheel spinning. It was something I had to be disciplined not to do because the inertial feel was unlike what I experienced at typical speeds outside.
The Kickr Core is connected to a Zwift Frame, so I can’t alter the gearing easily, but I still prefer its feel. The Neo feels duller and harder to keep up to speed even though it has a higher “virtual” flywheel mass that the Kickr’s.
For what it’s worth I do feel a difference between Zwift and TR in terms of erg mode power delivery. Not to that extent, but it also seems to vary by trainer. For the elimination of variables I would try going back to TR, at least for a few rides to see if that’s a factor or if its purely trainer related (never ridden either trainer)
thanks so much for the comments and suggestions guys. i did a 3hr zone 2 ride today and think i can feel myself getting used to the neo a bit more. i would say the neo replicates what i feel when i ride outside and the flux as stated above made indoor sweetspot intervals easier because once its spins up to speed i could mentally clock out
i think i will make peace with the new trainer, let AI FTP do its thing and take the likely 30 or 40 watt drop and start winter training with my new numbers
I’ve been on an OG Neo for years and I’m pretty sure I’m about to buy the Zwift/KickrCore combo. I’m dying to see if my digital FTP skyrockets after years of discussion around the “Neo Tax”.
just incase anyone is interested in my anecdote. I could train fairly “easily” at 303w on my Flux (peaked at 310w a few months ago). On my Neo id guestimate that my FTP is around 270w or so. Got to admit this “neo tax” made me laugh and i feel a lot better about it now
I have a 2t and the power discrepency drove me crazy. Between three separate outdoor PM’s, an H3 and the 2t, the Neo read considerably lower. I ended up getting a set of Assiomas to test between the setups and sure enough they basically matched my outdoor numbers.
For all the talk of the Neos being the most accurate, for me, it reads 10-15% low consistently compared to 5 other power meters which read generally the same.
I ended up keeping the Assiomas and using them with power match on the Neo. Not that I care a whole lot about what the number is, but trying to do intervals outside becomes a headache doing mental math.
Also, I feel Zwift does indeed feel different than TR during intervals. I think the power fluctuates more. I see it spike a lot more which causes the whole thing to feel harder. I’m a tester by nature, so I did a lot of back to back when the Zwift feature came out. I went back to running Zwift on top of TR for intervals.
I bought a Neo3M, upgrading from my Neo 2T and immediately threw my MTB on it to do some testing against a Quarq and Favero Assioma. I was immediately seeing it reading about 5% low and was starting to get a little pissed.
Swapped my old road bike on, and wouldn’t you know it - it’s now pretty much dead on which is telling me my MTB needs some damn work…
MTB: Transmission 10-52, SRAM Flat Top, Waxed Chain. But, my guess is that everything needs a cleaning and I definitely need a re-wax.
Road Bike: Old SRAM 11 Speed, but only used on the trainer. Silca Synergetic Wet Lube.
Eye opening for me - but losing 15 watts on the MTB due to the drivetrain is something I need to do a little testing on. May need to re-evaluate which wax I’m using and even look at one of the new KMC Chains.
Molten Speed Wax, but if I were to guess it’s more that it hasn’t been re-waxed recently enough so I’m going to try a general service, strip / clean the chain and re-wax first before thinking about testing different waxes or chains.
In that case I would highly recommend not trying UFO Endurance! I’m testing it at the moment, great for what it says on the label but mega stiff initially and a super long break in with a lot of noise (like, I stopped to check I hadn’t routed the chain over the tab on the rear mech during the first ride!)
