So did you basically wait a full 10 days since FINISHING recovery week before you retested your long block?
I tested after about 10 days of easy riding with one group ride in there. Didn’t go well; RPE and HR sky high that day. About ten days since, did 1x60 and 3x25SST, 65 min tempo + short power test, one over under session 45 min working, a 4 hr ride and a couple of short easy rides.
So this was technically my second long test since recovery, but just a residual test.
Yesterday just did a 32min max effort after a good warmup, and it went way better likely because my head was right for the sustained effort. It wasn’t a formal FTP/TTE test. My FTP is somewhere in the 280s by yesterday’s feel. Felt like I could do like 283-285 for much longer, but pushed 291 for the last 20+ min.
I may retest my long test next weekend, i did one yesterday, and did well, but i felt like i had a lot holding me back with residual fatigue. RPE was certainly higher than it should have been.
What’s the progression going to be on the 4x8?
36 and then on feel to 48 and focus on power
Yes i think it is a good idea to do every 14 days a vo2max workout. Like TC also recommend in one of his webinars.
The progression for 4x8 is go max out every time.
Seriously its survival every time
I’ve only done it once before (back in January). I didn’t have a laptop available to easily play with resistance mode, so I had to do it in ERG. It wasn’t quite all out, but I did 110%, then 108% for the final 3. This one had 3 minute breaks, so I think I’d need to cut that down as I did feel, not comfortable, but in total control.
I’m completely onboard for using resistance mode for VO2 max workouts, so am sure I’d smash myself next time
The difference between 110% and 108% is palpable, secondly 3 minutes vs 2 minutes makes a difference (if only mentally). Finally, fatigue makes a big difference. Days where I’ve not been feeling it, I’ve failed, other days I can smash it out. Really though I would do it to HR as well as power.
Also may I never meet you ina crit. 400W for 8 minutes jesus christ
Yep, I would’ve really struggled to do all 4 at 110% - I was in the final week of the block.
Was curious about progression because I think these type of workouts have to be done in quite a narrow range - can’t rip your legs off and hang on like with 3-5 min efforts, and adding another interval would make the workout too close to threshold IMO.
I actually spent some time talking to Kolie about 4x8. For the first time I was in disagreement. He says it’s not effective because its not hard enough, however, I definitely seem to easily get a lot of time in zone doing it. However when I’m struggling its definitely more like threshold.
In any case these next two weeks I’m doing hard start instead of 4x8.
I think 4*8 are more threshold than vo2max
You could probably be doing O/Us now if you wanted. drop a gear and go for 30s or so every few minutes. Pays off in the end. Helps with surges/hills in the real world too
I guess technically you’ll end up riding at about 103-106% for most people, so it IS threshold, but… I find that keeping a high cadence (105-110 ish) I can get a much more ‘vo2 like’ experience, with my HR at 91-93% pretty quickly in every interval and staying there the rest of the time, and breathing certainly feels a little nearer vo2 than threshold. I’m not suggesting it feels like a full on vo2 session though, and nowhere near as unpleasant!
I think they became known as a vo2 interval after Seilers study showed more impact on raising FTP and vo2 than the shorter or longer intervals he tested against.
When it comes to VO2 blocks the TiZ that keeps getting kicked around is 15-20min for a workout for effective dose.
Is this time AT VO2 or is that the duration of the intervals?
Example; I just did a 3x5:30min today using the WKO optimized interval power target and duration target.
It generated the following; with 16.5min of interval length I managed 13:59 above 90% of VO2.
Should I be trying to get the time at 90% of VO2 up to 15-18min???
I think working for 20 minutes of interval time is plenty. My progression was 8 workouts going 4x5 → 5x4 → 6x3:30. As fatigue built over the block, I would increase rest a little bit, then drop the interval length. So I think I did 3 at 4x5, 3 at 5x4 and 2 at 6x3:30. Seems to have been effective for me. WKO has my VO2max up from 59 to 61, and I just set all time power records between 16 and 32 min last night.
Part of the protocol KM seems to use includes “hard start”. Lots of debate about this in another (now deleted) thread, but I did mine as hard starts. So, for example, I found that a 5 min interval with the first 20s at about 400W followed by all-out effort was good. I usually settled in between 320-340W… by the end of the workout I was barely above threshold (280) by the end of the last interval, but my breathing and RPE were what I expected.
That was my experience too. I felt stale after my recovery time trying to test. So I’m going to try a different recovery week protocol keeping some intensity but backing WAY off volume (similar to my race tapers). I may also just slate my FTP/TTE testing into the second week of working blocks as a stand-alone workout. “It depends”, I think…
Ideally TiZ = actually time at or above 90% HRm or 95% of VO2max.
14 min is a good workout, I would be happy.
so for those using WKO5 and optimized intervals i’ll give you my take a week into relying solely on them for vo2 work.
wow are they bang on.
if had followed TR’s typical Vo2 workouts i would have been grossly overtargetting my power, currently sitting at ~115% vs the standard 120% they specify.
But the interval length and the targets are exactly what they need to be. They hurt like bloody hell but are absolutely able to complete. Learning to love the hurt locker right now.
Agree. I used optimized interval targeting as a rough guideline for my VO2max hard start intervals and the response was excellent. Also lower than what TR would recommend for that interval length for me.
I also agree.
This is where I wonder what, if any benefit AT will bring? I know 99% of us dont have it yet but will AT actually realise that 120% FTP is not the right level for many people and give you intervals at 115% or 117% or will it just give you a workout with less reps or longer rest intervals etc?