No worries at all @eduardo23. I think from memory George Bennet talks about it quite a bit in this podcast episode which was interesting.
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My recommendation to you would be to start at 3x20 - dial the power down if your HR gets above 85%, but complete the interval. When you can hold 3x20 at 90% with a HR below 85%, start doing longer intervals.
Also, here is a technique to keep your mind engaged better: every 5 mins, do 4 min seated, 1 min standing. It really breaks up the intervals - you can toy with variations of it, but it helps me.
Good luck 
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How often do you guys do a ramp test when pushing out your time at sweet spot? Do you get to 1x60 or some other benchmark then test and start again or what?
Do it as often as you want - sometimes I do this within the construct of a TR plan (I sub-out workouts) and other times Iām fine knowing that if my FTP has gone up and Iām actually working at tempo, my aerobic base is building and Iām becoming faster through stamina/repeatability.
There is so much sub-threshold/aerobic work to do for the time-crunched athlete, none of it is a waste ā all of it makes you faster, just in different ways.
In my opinion, unless youāre ramping towards an event and in an 8-10 week window outside of itā¦ push more and more time in zone.
My personal best is 2x90 @ <70 RPM. My FTP didnāt go up, but I went to a 5 day riding camp and no one could hang with me except Lael Wilcox and Dylan Morton (look them up) - I just had stamina for days. Felt like I could do whatever I wanted on a bikeā¦
Lael and Dylan were cool to me. They also dropped me when they wantedā¦ but I got to ride with themš¤
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I donāt think you can test just anytime because if you work up to say 2X30 at sweet spot then retest youāre going to have a hell of a time going up to 2X40 at sweet spot whereas if you stay at the same FTP then you have a decent shot at moving up to 2X40.
I donāt see how you can test, say, every 2-3 weeks and increase your time in zone simultaneously. Or maybe Iām wrong about that?
On your 2X90 ride, how long had you been training at the same FTP? Iām thinking way more than a couple of weeks, right?
Joe
Yeah - I wouldnāt test more than every 4-6 weeks. Sorry if I implied that. I test a bit inconsistently depending on how strong/weak/consistent my training block has been.
I never start below 3x20 intervals, and Iāll dial the intensity down if Iām really cooking in the last intervalā¦ and go from there.
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I created my own SS workouts with intervals no shorter than 20mins. One of the things I didnāt like about the TR workouts in Low Volume SSB is the intervals were too short, and intensity too high.
This evening, I have 1x60 at 90% on the cards.
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Wow, starting with 3X20āsā¦at 90% FTP? If so you guys start out hard!
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Not everyone does that - I failed a 2x20@90% today. I need to reset my FTP so I can āwalkā the progression.
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I started out today at 4x22.5 @94%.
My heart rate was at 83% of max during the intervals.
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I wouldnāt start with 3x20 at 90%. Iād start with 2x20 at 85%. Then build duration from there, followed by higher intensity.
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On my 1x60 today, my HR averaged 83% of max for the duration.
- 80% for the first 20 mins
- 84% for 2nd 20
- 85% for 3rd 20
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Great work.
SS is generally 88-95% of FTP, so thereās no problem starting at the low end of it, it doesnāt always have to be on the high end.
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Regarding this, how long is too long?
Great awesome fabulous discussion/topic! Thanks to @AgingCannon for putting together the SST progression-Log In to TrainerRoad . Also agree with @bbarrera comments and thinking on this matter. Iāve read this whole thread and for what itās worth Iāll be working a version of this sweet spot progression into my base plan for 2021 to help with fatigue resistance in long rides (75-100 miles). In general the TR SST plans have been a game changer. Iām a 48 year old masters and totally agree with others though that the TR SSB plans can be way to hard (too high density) to follow without adjustment. So, to plan my year the past three seasons, I simply layout the TR base/build plans (now using plan builder) and cherry pick key workouts and replace others with with less harder stuff like tempo and Z1-2 endurance rides. Planning for a total of 18 weeks of base this year. Iāve had a really good run the past three seasons and this year was especially good using the less intensity, more TIZ concept. I donāt have an official event to peak for but I build TSS and work my plan to be strong by June then work carefully to maintain my FTP until weather turns bad. I ride hard group rides and throw in 1 or 2 races a year for the heck of it. I roll with a 3.6 W/kg but because of structured training and sweet spot development I can hang with 4+ W/kg guys.
FWIW-these things have helped me as a masters in hanging with long intense group rides.
- When in doubt, give yourself an extra day, or even two, of recovery before key workoutsā¦ you wonāt lose fitness, seriously.
- Carefully planned longer sweet spot work is a game changer for hanging in hard races/rides, as this discussion eludes to.
- The ālong rideā is key. @brendanhousler mentions this in his blog and he is a great resource- Cycling Season Professional Training Plan & Coaching | EVOQ.BIKE. Long Z2 work (4 hours) works wonders for me.
- Think and plan for long term success; 3-5 year progression. Itās a marathon, not a sprint
- Modify and customize the TR canned plans as needed to prevent burn out, especially for us old dudesā¦ please coach Chad and Amber we want Masters plans LOL!
my 2cents
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Iām also starting a sweet spot progression base period for the first time. First week was 2x20min. Last week 1x40min and 1x45min.
I perform these on indoor climbs cadence 70-85? Is this too low?
I read some articles that sweetspot low cadence workouts is good for decreasings Vlamax. But how long is low, and how long should they last? any thoughts?
heck yeah long ride! thanks for the tip and mention!
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Great post here in a very interesting thread. Iām starting my customized SSB1HV plan today. Essentially Iām subbing out the shorter SS ride with Petit and replacing the scheduled Petit with a rest day. Then Iām running progression of long intervals on āSaturdayā starting with Wright Peak -2 building to Wright Peak -1 following the HV progression. Replace second weekend SS ride with long Z2 building from 2:30 to 3:30.
Total of 8-9:30 in the saddle with up to 240min TIZ for SS each week (60-90 min per session).
Not exactly this type of SS progression, but similar goals of increased muscle and aerobic endurance while progressing TIZ.
If this works without crushing me, I will tweak a second base period based on the SS progression in here to build to a true 1x90 before shifting to a Build. This is my answer to needing more than SSB1MV but not having to go all the way to HV.
Looking forward to further muscle endurance and aerobic endurance gains!
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