Can you add a little detail on this, or link to a source? I’m interested in learning more about it.
I like to set a TiZ goal for each week. So for example, let’s say this week I’m looking to perform 2 Sweet Spot rides and I want to do 60 minutes of Sweet Spot within each workout.
Workout 1 would be: 3x20
Workout 2 would be: 2x30
I don’t progress TiZ in one week, I maintain the same TiZ, but I change the LENGTH of each interval. Does that make sense?
7 Likes
I don’t remember exactly, but you were doing high-tempo? 85% of FTP? I’m curious how he has arrived at 83% of max. Can you elaborate?
I realize we’re different, but for me, 83% of max would put me at 160-162 BPM (195 max, 175 LTHR), which I could hold for at least 2 hrs straight…given that, it wouldn’t be Sweet Spot, but more like a tempo ride for me.
Side question: Around what percentage of your max heart rate is lactate threshold heart rate? Roughly 90% of max? Totally individual?
Mine is 87%.
There are threads/articles floating around which talk about this and the individuality of the matter.
1 Like
See my post above with a link to the Steve Neal thread and podcast.
I do my rides at 85-90% of threshold. So yes, high tempo / low sweet spot. I purposely avoid the higher end of SS as I want to contain the amount of stress during these sessions.
I should also add that I’m not always successful at keeping my HR where I’d like it to be. But that’s OK, as the main thing is that my RPE is below the threshold range.
Yep. Somewhere around there.
I discovered these workouts last week so just started this week with the first two. I plan on doing 2 workouts per week, and see how it goes adding TiZ, if I can not finish a workout I plan on repeating it until I can finish it. But as long as I can finish them I will try to go to the next one.
Maybe fatigue catches up and muscle adaptations take longer but 5 minute increase in TiZ workout after workout seems not so much.
Once I am successful with the 3x30 min, I plan restarting at 5 to 10 watts higher power, I am aware at some point I will most likely stagnate but lets see.
“See how it goes” is actually a great strategy: do what you can and don’t bury yourself. After my last FTP bump, I went back to 3x15… and I’ve worked up from 17 minutes in zone, to 29 minutes, now to 38 minutes. I’ll probably complete it on my 4th attempt. But in all of these, I’ve hit 91% of my max HR, so I’ll do the 3x15 for a fifth time to bring HR and RPE down a little bit. Then I’ll move on.
Give some thought to how you increase your FTP. You can certainly just nudge upward 10 watts, which is 3% of a 310W FTP, but you’ll need to figure out if that’s too little, too much, or just right. You might be better served by retesting your FTP, and then taking all, or part, of the increase it suggests. In either case, just double-check that your increase is giving you appropriately-challenging workouts.
You might be well served to try 1x60 (or 2x45) at this point. Remember, you’re better off increasing the length of your interval duration than by upping the power. A longer interval slightly below FTP is superior than a shorter one slightly above. There’s some good discussion here about this exact thing, it’s only ~35 min so give it a listen, you’ll learn something:
Overall you sound like you have a good approach. Let us know how it goes for you.
7 Likes
My max is 200, I can be conversational at 180 and can average 180 on a SS interval, especially once my TiZ hits over 30 minutes. And the average can vary 10-15bpm in just one interval. With all this, of course my RPE rises but never to that level of threshold and above work. I’m sure this will improve as I continue doing more SS, but should I change my interval lengths or anything else?
I’ll read your link as I am most intrigued! Plus, another podcast to listen to, I’m so down 
Also, are you all getting lab tested for the lactate heart rate thing or is this something I can do on my own?
I came up with a concept i’ve called 9’s. It’s an odd concept but can see a lot of people benefiting from it.
Essentially it’s 9min efforts with 1 min recovery, the way the progression works is as follows (example):
4 x 9@88%
4 x 9@91%
4 x 9@93%
4 x 9@95%
5 x 9@88%
5 x 9@91%
5 x 9@93%
5 x 9@95%
And repeat with 6,7,8 etc
2 Likes
Easy as pie to create a big set of those with TR’s Workout Creator. Create your 4x9@88%. Then clone and increase the height of the bars, three times. Now you’ve got a set of 4x workouts.
Then you can take each of those, clone and add a recovery/work interval pair to it, and now you’ve got a set of 5x workouts.
It takes really very little time to create what you want. Have you done it already? Sounds like a really interesting idea.
Slightly off topic, so please delete if needed.
I am wondering if a SS focused phase would be of best use for me? Im a believer in working on my weaknesses rather than my strengths. I consider myself more anearobic biased rider and my weakness is definitely my 20m power upwards 290w 3.8w/kg via a ramp test, so no dlubt my ftp is a bit lower than that. Would SS hit those areas for me? I can provide more details about my training history etc if this helps give you guys a better idea.
If you are more anaerobicaly inclined ramp test probably overestimating your ftp. I would start with proper, long ftp test and then go with SS. If long, steady state intervals are your weakness it should definitely help you. But be careful going to the SST and threshold workouts with overestimated ftp as it can crush you.
1 Like
Which test would you recommend? I’ve never had any trouble completing my z3/4 sessions (apart from lemarck) so it not sure it number is massively away from being correct. Looking back at my previous plans, I have had the biggest gains from sustained power build.
Personally I’ve always used the 20min test, but I suppose you could do 2 of the 20 min test, 2 x 8 min test or ramp test and use the midpoint of the values collected.
You could check out this thread.
5 Likes
If you think you are more anaerobicly inclined, the longer the better. I would recommend Kolie Moore test as always.
This is the testing method I had in the back of my mind. I wasn’t keen on the 20min test as pacing plays too large a part. Although I have completed all of my SS or threshold sessions with my current ramp test ftp, do you recommend that I manually lower my FTP so that I dont blow out during Kolie Moore version too early on?
No, try your current ftp. If you blow out - you blow out, so at least you know your ftp was too high, if not - your ftp is correct. There is no bad test.
1 Like