So that means basically don’t do intensive FTP, unless you’ve done a vo2 block before, and your FTP is ready to grow.
My problem is that I don’t actually need the longer TTE (my races are nominally 40 minutes), I only need the “side effect” of an FTP increase.
Previous vo2 block didn’t do much for me, but maybe I just need to try again.
And here comes another aspect - volume. Last block also did nothing to me but increasing volume, even as much as 2h is doing good things. This is the latest problem I want to go deeper into. Currently trying to find a little bit more time, do 1-2h more weekly and see if this will do something. Basically the old truth - ride more, works. So if intensity does nothing to you - try volume.
And for your particular case - anaerobic capacity workouts worked for increased short power - some 15/15 or 30/15 (it was totally neglected by me during training) improved my 10-20 min power but not improved FTP.
Yes, volume works for me. I had my best power numbers when I just rode a lot (12-15 h a week) Then I decided I should try to train smarter (or even just “train”, as opposed to just ride around), but I never got back to the high-volume fitness. Or maybe I am just about getting there now, with a bit less volume (8-10h) and some intervals and max efforts thrown in. Or I just test better, hah!
30/15s or similar are definitively on the agenda, just thinking whether to do more “real” vo2max work first. I’m 6 weeks out from race season, so want to ramp it up, without digging a hole. Hmm.
Then during race season it’ll be more SST, that worked better for me in the past.
I would think most anyone could be competitive on 8-10 hr (this is my current volume) and I do fairly well in 2-3 hour gravel races and CX events. I don’t have the fatigue resistance to do anything longer than 4 hours though, which is perfectly fine as you adjust your demands to the realities of your training.
FWIW, I did a month-long VO2 block before my first event and it helped immensely in terms of dealing with lactate, 1-8 min power, and just having bullets in the chamber when need be. It didn’t do anything for my FTP though. I don’t measure gains by improvement in FTP alone though.
My bread and butter VO2 workouts are 7x3, 4x4, 5x4, 5x5, etc. I think longer intervals do more than the short-short stuff.
Re: FTP
If your TTE only needs to be around 40 min I think you could still do an extensive FTP progression but maybe cap it at 100 to 125% of TTE since your goal isn’t to extend it. 4x10 → 3x15 → 2x25 → 3x20 → 1x60
Seems like you’d still get some FTP gains that way. You could also try doing shorter FTP intervals like 4x8, 5x10 @ 98-105%, stuff like that. Not quite VO2, but definitely threshold to supra-threshold. More power focused. Goal could be to raise power 5-10w weekly or something.
Lastly, don’t forget over-unders, I love those, they not only raise FTP but help with lactate shuttling, something I think is always beneficial when racing.
Not argue with that, but from overall feeling I felt a way better with 12h. It is small difference in terms of hours but for me personally I felt way fitter. Due the life I have reduced the volume to 8 hours but recently done block around 11h (similar workouts like 8h, 3h is z2 difference) and felt way fitter. Of course 8h is enough to compete but volume leaves me feeling a lot better on the bike and what is surprising - way more fresh in a long term perspective.
I have the same. Volume works for me. When you do normally 10h a week in 5 rides and you at every ride 15min extra time will give you 12% more volume. Calculate it over a year and it makes a huge difference.
I know this has been covered a bunch elsewhere, but what do you all do for Intensity with your additional volume?
I used to try sit around 0.7, but am now finding it more reasonable to do 0.65. Am I still getting enough endurance/aerobic benefit?
Do as much as you can without adding too much fatigue. If 0.7 means you can do 1:30h ride but you have time for 2-3h but need to be 0.65 - go for it. If you have a great day and 0.7if is the pace you want - do it. Overall suggestion is to go longer not harder when possible.
Thanks! Yeah I was thinking of doing a short-extensive FTP progression anyway up to maybe 60min max. I’m just insure about pushing the intervals over FTP - I find those are disproportionally hard, and not convinced of the benefit. I might try adding bursts instead, at least that will have race specificity. (And yes, I do like over-unders, I find that actually a bit easier than just sitting at a constant power).
Think I’m coming round to the idea of doing a short vo2 block (2 weeks?) and then move to building FRC with 30/15s etc.
Yesterday I did 3x30 Sweet Spot @90%. At the last set my heart rate went up above threshold HR.
Shoud I reduce the power to keep my HR in the Sweet Spot range or it doesn’t matter?
Does not matter. Your HR was only indication that you are tired/dehydrated/too hot.
65% is totally fine. In fact, it’s my Z2 target. Aiming for high Z2 can unnecessarily impact your ability to do work later in the week. I aim for .65 IF on long rides. I’ll do some 70% if on the trainer, but 65 is my target.
You could also argue a lot of riders before Trainer Road were using RPE as their main training zone verification. While always wondering if there was a better way to train than just simply riding as hard as you can for 90 minutes. And then you are right, Trainer road came around and has made ( interval training ) and number based training extremely popular and we are collectively loosing sight and feel on what its like to freeride. Not a knock on Trainer Road, its the riders responsibility to know how to train and know how to ride.
Its a great marketing ploy by EF right now. They know this and they are saying hey, we are going to teach you how to understand and feel RPE.
It certainly going against the current at the moment and it will get attention because of it. And its also just a good teaching concept whether its genuine or a marketing ploy and or both.
I have to disagree a little bit. Using a Power Meter has allowed me to much more finely dial my RPE. I did many, many thousand km’s on the bike with only speed and cadence and would really only ride in three zones; easy, hard, too hard.
Now I can feel the difference between 0.7 and 0.6, FTP and 0.9, etc.
I couldn’t have dialled those sensations so closely without being able to see the number over multiple rides and ride lengths to see and feel the difference in sensations when fresh (what’s that?!?), Fatigued, or tiring throughout a session.
YMMV but I’ve gained a lot from having Power.
Yes, that’s why I first bought a power meter too. I couldn’t really make sense out of instructions like “do a 7/10 effort”. Maybe if you learned to race without power, you can do that, but for me translating it to power numbers helped me learn how it should feel too.
Eh, I use RPE for my long Z2 rides, it just so happens that that falls around 65%. I have a really good feel for it. I prescribe run workouts (currently all I’m coaching) by RPE all the time. But Power informs RPE, so once an athlete has a good sense of themselves, RPE becomes very effective. Most athletes take a while to “calibrate” that feel.
I suggest in this case, at the start of an interval go up to the prescribed wattage. Then look away and try to go from there, checking every few minutes or seconds depending on the effort. Watch the surroundings in the meantime. You’ll learn quickly.
Now we talk about endurance riding, yesterday i did a 123km ride endurance ride (3h40min). My Z2 is 168-227w. Avg power over the ride was 212w (70%). Always after riding 3h, my heartrate is going up, but i can hold the power. And the breathing is not the same as when iam starting at hf 160. So my breathing is like Z2, but my heartrate is going higher above 160. I know thats fatique, dehydration etc. But why my breathing is not going up? And when my heartrate is going up after 3h, do i need to lower the power or not?
Btw my decoupling is only 2% so in the last 1h i did some more watt (232w avg)
RPE - keep it around 3-5. If you are tired and RPE goes up - lower the power. If not - do not lower the power. The higher hr could be also the effect of recruiting more motor units and this is also the purpose of long Z2 rides.
Yes i think my RPE was in the first 2.5h around 5, but increased during the ride. Next time i will lower the power a littlebit, but most of time i come “in the zone” and like to hammer.