Yes i have listened to! Really good!
Today i did 5x4min Vo2max on a climb. It went very well for my feeling. Breathing like a fish, high rpm etc… but WKO5 says its only 9:23 above 85% and 1:38 aboven 90%…
The power is not 90% in Vo2max, but as Koolie says in the podcast, a lower power doesnt matter, but how do i interpret the data?
Hmm, interesting.
Just started doing sweet spot work a month ago, and haven’t done much progressing. Maybe out to 50 minutes now. But I’ve done a LOT to develop basic aerobic endurance over the last 8 months.
On a related note maybe someone wants to comment on this climb of duration 17 minutes and 37 seconds (17:37) on a 10% grade. Rested and relaxed coming into this effort. This climb followed an earlier 35 minute climb:
Three observations:
that I was at or above 90% pVO2max for 17:10 of the 17:37 interval.
Regarding heart rate I’m always a bit curious about using it as a measure of vo2max.
This is a case where I believe the WKO model.
And FWIW I’ve always avoided using % HRmax as a measure of vo2max.
Were you well rested? Fatigue can play a roll in heart rate response. What was your breathing like?
Take this with a grain of salt as I don’t understand VO2max as well as some, but I would assume (maybe incorrectly) that if a person is operating at their power @ VO2max or really close they likely are working very close to their VO2max regardless of heart rate. Unless you’re VO2max is like 130% of your FTP and your wattages figures are incorrect.
For me, as long as I’m making the power and I’m breathing hard I assume I’m very close to true VO2max. Somedays that might put me at 91% of HRmax, other days it’s like 97% of HRmax.
Basically agree with what you said, although we could try unpacking VO2 watts and vo2max. But I’m not an exercise physiologist so kinda pointless. But its why I scratch my head at all the intervals.icu graphs showing time above 90% HRmax. Because I can do a 45 minute threshold effort and spend large majority of my time at 91.4% HRmax but not be at vo2max. And then see lower HR and be at or near vo2max.
Check the chart “Relative VO2max”. There is a time consideration to reach VO2 max state - the more % of pVO2 max the shorter the time. You have worked just above FTP for a quite short time - so probably WKO is right. The chart you have shown is a custom chart that only marks Vo2 max efforts.
I’m with you there as my LTHR is right at 90% of HRmax. So when I hear coaches throw around the “aim for 15-20min” at 90% HRmax or greater I can do that all day long if I’m doing a VO2max session. Here’s a 5x5 session from Thursday that puts me at almost 30 minutes of time at 90% of HRmax. I highly doubt I collected that amount of time within 95% of VO2max though.
This is why I just use heart rate as a marker of whether or not something is off. As in, I’m doing 5-min intervals at 118% of FTP, but my heart rate is only hitting LTHR then I know something is off. But as long as I’m making the power and my breathing is labored I’m good to go.
“all out” and “full gas” are better descriptions (which is not the same as max effort).
Not real rested. Yesterdag 86km with 1300hm and 6min all out. Breathing like a fish on the dry. Breathing starts after 30s in the block.
Kolie talk about in the webinar is that vo2max breathing and HR is more important than power. For example after 4 blocks. The 5 block due fatique you dont reach vo2max power anymore, but your HR and breathing is the same as vo2max looks like.
But WKO5 base VO2max work on power, but vo2max is cardiovasculair and not power based. KM talk about in some webinars and say VO2max is breathing and HR. High cadans will give a lower power, but you reach more central adapation…
Heartrate above 90% of HRmax, high RPM and breathing like a fish. But WKO5 (based on power) will say not more than 85% VO2max…
Good point from @anthonylane and @bbarrera about % HRmax. My LTHR is at 92% of HRmax, so 90% i for me not vo2max.
“like being waterboarded” is another great descriptor for long VO2 max efforts
It’s because they are custom workouts, the level algorithm only really considers the TR-made workouts.
Not really, there are many TR workouts over 10.
Just making a light hearted comment about how good our sweet spot is
Yes, but the TR guys said somewhere that the levels aren’t generated right for custom workouts.
(I think they mean, they have checked the auto-generated levels of their workouts, but they haven’t got round to / don’t want to looked at the custom workouts)
…I find the whole “levels over 10” thing is a bit nuts tbh. What’s the point of creating a new scale if you immediatly break it?
Here I totally agree and it doesn’t seem logical to brake the scale, because that causes too much consternation.
Sorry, couldn’t help myself
Interesting you can see the levels for those. I’ve got very similar ones from one of the SS Progression Teams and none show any level.
(I know the levels of the custom workouts don’t scale directly - see some of the 20+ jobbers - but I think that long sweet spot would actually scale well and as long as you aren’t taking it too literally you can get a gauge of what the SS level is vs a Wright’s Peak etc)
