I will do some more testing tomrrow. Watched the Lama ride and he didnt seem to be having any issues. I am using Apple TV as interface…wondering if different zwift releases might work better or worse. Will try my MacBook next.
Needs an Audi interior engineer getting involved - Audi has probably the best tactile feedback switches in the entire automotive industry. Ah, that satisfying ‘click’ of a well-designed control…
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It’s almost like they get no feedback from users/test group.
Yesterday’s Zwift simulation ride went better on a flatter London test route. A few changes I made:
- Updated to newly released bike firmware
- Recalibrated pedals
- Cycled the bike power
- Adjusted the Zwift realism setting to essentially dampen the grade changes
- Was very deliberate in pushing the hoods gear change button
All the above seemed to smooth out the experience. I was able to manage power output much better through grade changes & gear shifts to the point I was able to manage drafting off some folks. The down side is this experience was on a much flatter course, I had to reduce the grade realism, the hood shifters still seemed to miss shifts if I was not very deliberate in the press. This would still not work well in race situations or rapid steep changes of grade.
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Now that I think about it, I always had zwift dialed back to dampen the gradients. Seemed to be able to stay in the middle of the cassette better when my cross bike was bolted in, and I didnt care for the freewheeling downhills. Didnt have a big enough gear. Maybe thats why I had a better experience riding the stages bike.
I did my first real hour long workout in ERG last night. It worked well, as I would have expected. Much better than the few short ones before. I was happy with it. It reacted better to the increases and decreases.
I feel ya on the buttons on the hoods. They could be better.
Overall I feel the issues I was having have been worked out, whether by firmware, settings or just learning how to use it.
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Has there been any improvements to shifting via updated FW/etc as a result of the feedback from these early users? Giving the Stages bike a really hard look, but want to make sure the initial bugs are worked out first.
Finally got my bike delivered yesterday, and took it for a test ride on Zwift for about 45 minutes. Couple of quick impressions (TL:DR, not much new here - I can echo the experience many have had so far):
- The bike is extremely sturdy - I wound it up for a few sprints and it was pretty much pinned to the floor, a small bit of rock in the handlebars (which made it feel more realistic if anything) but very little movement.
- Incredibly quiet, even at pretty high cadence / power really the only thing that could be heard was huffing and puffing, the bike didn’t make much noise. I’m in a house (so don’t have to worry about noise to neighbors) but still nice to lower the decibel load on my ears.
- The shifting isn’t great. It’s “fine”, I used some of the methods @Scott_Decker described (be very deliberate) and that worked better, but not having an indicator is a pretty modest pain.
I didn’t get a chance to try Erg mode yet - will do that in the next day or so.
For me - I knew I wanted a smart bike like this, and being this early to the game meant I had to make some compromises, with the hope that they would improve later. All of the things about the bike that can’t be improved are rock solid - stability, adjustability, the fact that it actually has room for two bottles…and so from that perspective I’m very happy with it. I have to think they will solve the shifting headache a bit (indicator in Zwift/TR, heck I’d even buy a Stages Dash and run it concurrently if that would work), and so I’m very happy with my purchase even though the shifting wasn’t an “out of the box hit”.
(And to be clear - the shifting bothers me WAY less than the “leg rub” on the Tacx or wobble on the Kickr would, and those aren’t even fixable, so it’s still clearly the right purchase for me.)
If anyone wants me to test specific functionality / features - I’m more than happy to.
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I’d be interested on how ERG mode works for you. Especially for something like V02 max - how the ramp up to the high wattage is (how quickly and smoothly, etc). The other thing is how it is in ERG mode when you stop in the middle of sweet spot or above wattage and try to start back up again. On my smart trainer it’s a herculean effort, but I read in one of the reviews (I think it was VeloNews) that the Stages and Wahoo bikes allow you to ease back into the interval wattage a bit better (something like erg mode eases up when cadence is under 40).
What trainer were you coming from? Also, I can’t find either answer online, but does the bike require calibration ever? Did your paperwork indicate what the warranty period is? I’ve heard their spin bikes are 10 years, but I would imagine given the electronics involved it probably is not as long for this model.
I’m coming from an original Wahoo Kickr, I think at this point it was 7 years old. I got lucky with my original unit - my only problems were standard maintenance (I broke 3 of the belts, easy replacement) and at one point I had real problems with overheating, but simply pointing a small fan at the Kickr while I rode solved that one.
First rides on the bike I was surprised by how “choppy” the power looked - not felt, but looked, and then researching more it looks like the Kickr just smoothed the power readings significantly, so this one is more realistic. The power graphs for steady (non-Erg) efforts look more like an outside right, at best floating within a 20 watt range.
The power meters do have a calibration option (you calibrate both the L and R crankarms at the same time) but I’ll have to read the manual to see how often that’s required. As for the warranty, I believe it’s 1 year on the electronics and 5 years on the structural parts. So not quite the full 10 years you mentioned for their spin bikes. Although this thing is so massive, I honestly have no idea how I’d get a warranty claim serviced - I feel like I’d need a technician to come out, it’s more like a treadmill than a bike in terms of stability.
Think I have some Vo2 work on the books this week, will report back on how the Erg mode works there, and will also try to get into / out of the “erg mode spiral of death” and see how that goes.
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Thanks, I appreciate the feedback
From Stages support, update on the gear indicator question:
We’re adding a gear indicator feature, as well as customization to the StagesLink app in the next update, which should resolve this for you! I believe that update should go live in the next week or two, depending on testing.
Will let folks know when that’s out and how well it works.
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I wonder though if we get a gear indicator that is going to take up a Bluetooth connection so is that going to screw with other Bluetooth devices…
Hey Robert,
First bit of good news here is the StagesBike will support a concurrent connection to the Link App for gear display and another device for control. This is in our next app update.
A couple of extra bits of useful info;
- When you are riding erg mode in TR or other apps, gear will not matter as the trainer uses the target power to set resistance instead of some combination of current gear and gradient or resistance level
- This does mean you need to have a second device present for gear display and another device controlling the trainer, so in TR’s specific case, this would be when you are riding a workout without erg mode, and instead using their resistance setting and the StagesBike gears to set resistance for yourself, as you use the workout as more of a guide. In this case you would need a second device.
- We are working on a Public API that will allow companies like TR to get the gearing setup you set in the StagesBike with the Link App, and the current gear, so the gear display is integrated into the app you are using. This, we feel, will be the optimal way to display gear.
TLDR: We support an additional connection to the link app for gear display and are working on getting gear displayed in 3rd party apps now.
I hope this is helpful.
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Hi @jimstemper, thanks for the response - really helpful to have your engagement with the community as this product ramps up.
I think you’re right that the best long term solution is for individual companies to be able to pull in the gearing data themselves, will make for the most seamless integration with the existing platforms folks are familiar with. Good to see that you guys are bridging that gap with the Link app in the meantime - I’m really excited to set that up and see how well it works. There are a number of workouts I do where I like to downshift prior to a hard interval, and the ability to see that you’re in the “right” gear before you launch would be very helpful.
Thanks again for the info you provided, and really excited to hear more as the product / ecosystem evolves.
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Hey @KatuskaMTB, happy to do it. These forums are where we learn how people use our devices. It’s as useful to me as it is to you, maybe more!
Im interested in what you said about shifting down before a big interval. Do you do this in erg mode? I assume this is something you’ve done on trainers with your bike (which has actual real gears, not virtual ones). Would love to hear about the feeling you are going for here, or the benefit you get. Right now, we don’t do anything with a gear shift in Erg mode because, well, what would we do? We have plenty of ideas, but always want to hear more.
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Speaking for myself here, but I like having the ability to shift in erg mode. On a Kickr you get a distinct change in the inertia of the flywheel by doing so. Same watts but more or less inertia depending on how I want to train.
Piping in as a non-user, but one thing I use regularly with my bike on trainer is this trick to quickly transition between high and low cadences, while maintaining similar wheel speed. It’s an “outside technique” I apply inside in ERG mode to facilitate standing and seated transitions. But I also use it while seated when I want to quickly swap between high and low cadence work.
This may or may not parallel the request by others, but I can see them using shifting as a trick to handle large ERG changes that may take more time.
I have no idea if that is an issue with this bike, (enter speculation mode) and since it is has only one “gear”, it is adjusting the resistance level to simulate “gears”. That being the case, shifting in ERG could potentially make specific (and faster?) resistance level changes to allow rapid changes in rider cadence, while keeping the power close to “flat” and consistent.
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This is great feedback. @CZS the reason I bring this up is because on a smart bike the mechanical drive mechanism is fixed at a constant gear ratio, any “gear shifting” here would is purely programmatic, since at a given cadence the flywheel always spins at the same exact speed (there is no way to make the flywheel spin at a different speed at a given cadence). What i mean is when you change gear on the smart bike, it does not result in the flywheel spinning faster, it results in adjusting the electromagnetic resistance to that flywheel. In erg mode, we have the target power from the controller and use that to change this resistance to keep you at your target.
This ties nicely in to @mcneese.chad’s comment, where what is likely optimal is to simulate the kind of feel you get from shifting on a mechanical drive train. He talks about the transitions between different cadence (like from seated to standing, resulting in a big drop in cadence for most), which is probably something gears on a smart bike could accommodate for. For example; press shift down, and the erg mode resistance lets up briefly so the rider is able to lift their cadence without having to overcome some erg mode target, or conversely shift up, and the rider can accomodate for having just stood up, resulting in a drop of their cadence and getting ahead of making the erg mode control do the adjustment of resistance for you.
The primary reason we use such a heavy flywheel @CZS is to address exactly the feeling you are trying to get by shifting into bigger gears while in erg mode; to get that kickr flywheel really spinning fast to get that nice inertia feeling we all really like.
Helpful? Hopefully. Keep the thoughts coming.
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You nailed my suggestion. Likely a slight increase or decrease in applied resistance, in response to the designated shifter. This likely gets tricky, since hitting that button could apply that change in the short term, but the ERG mode programming would need to resume at some time delay after that.
You want the ERG to work, but allow the rider time to potentially change their input cadence as a result of the “shift”. I am guessing the challenge lies in determining the amount to change the resistance setting per shift (consistent percentage of change?) and how long to maintain that altered setting before allowing ERG to take direct control again.
Sounds like you understand at least my goal, and it may apply in the other cases. It’s an interesting option to consider at least, but I know it will be far from easy to get “right”.
I will echo comments that I am impressed by your interaction and feedback. That alone makes me more temped to place this bike at the top of the list for consideration if I head down the smart bike road.
Thanks for your input and time 
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Thanks for the question. I generally like to do workouts on Erg mode as it allows me a bit to just focus on getting the work done (and having the system hold me accountable), definitely agree that shifting there isn’t useful.
For some workouts though, I also like to (well, my coach prescribes…) workouts to focus on manual pacing, where I keep erg mode off and really try to maintain a steady power, feel the RPE, etc. by myself. So let’s say I’m doing 5 minute intervals at 300W, with 3 minutes of rest - right as my 3 minute rest is ending I want to downshift to a harder gear (and slow my cadence) to then be ready to hit the interval hard with the right cadence. Similar to how I may soft pedal into the big ring on an outside bike before starting a hard set - I like that same experience shifting indoors. Here’s an example of one workout I did in this fashion this week:
I was certainly able to make due - I would call the system “completely sufficient” for this, but if I could see the gearing ahead of time it would make those first ~15 second of the interval less focused on getting my gearing right and more just getting the work started.
Thanks.