I believe so. That definitely looks full/direct mount compared to regular RD hanger. Looked on Ride5’s IG page for that pic. No find. Where is this from? Can’t see anything on SRAM either…
It popped up yesterday. Looks like they took it down. I tend to follow SRAM closely and hadn’t heard about this. When I saw it, I took a screen shot. I have a Red AXS derailleur coming tomorrow and it’s apparently already out of date!
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yep…
Seriously though, in trying to find more info on this, I didn’t realize SRAM “reengineered” their groups in 2023 as I’m still riding my Force group from 2020. Just not paying attention til now. So it seems hard to imagine they’d change the groups again mid 2024?!?
Gravel bike is a grey area, but remember that road bikes were a quarter century behind MTBs for disc brakes. 
While this wouldn’t surprise me, it would rule out “mullet” setups, unless Sram plans to release road RDs that can handle a 50t+ cassette.
Now I’m thinking Trek will do what Specialized did when they abandoned the Venge to go all in for the Tarmac. Thinking a hybrid between the Madone and Emonda similar to what Cuccione was pictured riding a few weeks ago. Time will tell.
This info was from mid March and news to me and perhaps you as well. Some changes to Red include:
The new 2x Red=new levers (new ergonomics) and a remote switch on the lever that can be programmed. The derailleurs functionality is the same but they took a bunch of weight out of both of them. There is only one size 2x derailleur now and it can handle all of the cassette sizes up to a 36t. The crankset/power meter is basically the same but with some cosmetic changes and a little lighter. The 2x Red will work with any standard derailleur hanger. So it will work on any bike.
The new Red 1x is a whole new 13-speed group more focused towards gravel racing and maybe some cobbled classics. It uses technology from the Transmission MTB line and is only compatible with bikes that use Universal Derailleur Hangers (UDH). Currently there are very few road frames that use UDH, and only a handful of gravel frames. This is going to change going forward for sure. My guess is that any new models that come out pretty much going forward, or any updates to current models will use UDH. I know that Specialized is releasing a new Venge with a UDH at some point. My guess is the same goes for Trek.
The launch for 2x is May. The new 1x stuff may be at races like Roubaix and will eventually leak out, but I believe the release of that is little later this summer until there are more frames capable of actually using it.
I decided not to wait around and just bought a P1 Madone SLR7 AXS (Force). I didn’t realize Force only offers 48/35 and 46/33 ring combinations so I’ll swap out my current Red 50/37’s (ordered the 46/33 and will push that over to my gravel bike). Also, I went with the updated RSL62mm wheels (62’s not offered in the Pro line…).
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Interesting info here, and definitely news to me. I’m surprised they’d go to 13 speed for this group, all their 2x (including the new Red, apparently) as well as MTB 1x is 12s with the unique flattop chain. Cross-compatibility and options like mullet setups or 10-36 road cassettes with XPLR setups is a strength of the SRAM ecosystem. Presumably a 13s group needs a new chain, as well as a totally new cassette obviously, and won’t be compatible with anything else.
At a minimum I’m sure SRAM will continue to support non-UDH frames and 12s groups for many years to come, so unless you just MUST have the newest stuff I don’t think there’s any danger in getting a non-UDH frame.
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Hope so. That was the main reason I posted.
With electronic, I wouldn’t assume compatibility between 12 and 13 is out the window. Obviously, the shifters wouldn’t care and could be used for either. The rest really depends on what they do with the chain and/or cogs and whether the cassette is wider or in a different position. If it’s possible to run a 13sp chain on a 12 speed chainring, that might mean you could also make RD’s compatible with 12 or 13 speed via configuration.
13sp with a 12sp chain is possible with a big bottom sprocket that hangs off the back of the cassette and is dished to fit over the spokes. MTB 11spd already did this to fit 11sp cassettes on 10sp freehubs.
It is not just theoretical either, Rotor has released a 13-speed 1x drivetrain for mountain bikes and road bikes. They use a 12-speed KMC chain.
I love that they are going 13-speed (assuming the rumors are true). That is definitely the transition point where 1x on the road is possible with minimal compromises in terms of steps between gears.
Rotor’s 13-speed 10–39 cassette has identical gearing to SRAM’s 12-speed 10–33 cassette, it just sports an extra 39-tooth cog. A look at Rotor’s 10–46 gravel cassette also shows what’s possible for SRAM.
I’m slightly skeptical SRAM would do something as consumer-friendly as make their hypothetical new 13s system backward compatible to existing AXS via a firmware update. Not really their MO!
And I think road 1x will still suffer from the frictional losses due to cross-chaining and need to use the whole cassette. For me 2x’s advantage is not total range, but the ability to keep the chain near the middle of the cassette in more conditions. In gravel and MTB this is outweighed by chain retention and overall simplicity, but roadies still love to count watts and there’s no way to make a 1x system that doesn’t have fairly substantial watt penalties at the chain line extremes….
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Second gen force (D2) offers a 50/37
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Thanks. See that now…I did P1 and the manager said the 50/37 wasn’t “offered”. Perhaps “offered” meant sold out/not available? IDK. Didn’t press him on it as I have a Red 50/37 I can use and will use the Force 46/33 on the gravel bike…
I understand that. As a matter of principle, losses are lower when the chain line is straighter. However, even TdF pros have been using — and at times winning stages on — 1x setups for setups with a Classified hub. Efficiency arguments are less relevant for amateurs in my opinion.
Moreover, looking at riding buddies who are on 2x and myself when I was on 2x11, I would tend to stay in the big chain ring as long as possible and cross chain almost completely in many situations (50:28 in my case, the 10th cog of my 11-speed 11-32 cassette).
You can see a trend towards 1x on the dropbar market, starting with gravel and allroad bikes. Just to be fair, you do you. If you prefer 2x, I like that SRAM gives you the choice (unlike Shimano). They have 2x and 1x setups with essentially the same gear range.
Roadies are the conservative uncle of the cycling family. Triathletes have to teach them about things like aero. Mountain bikers about disc brakes.
No, I wouldn’t expect so. Neither does Shimano when they went 12-speed (with the exception of the TT shifters, I believe). With electronic shifting there is no technical reason to need a new shifter when you add (or, hypothetically, remove) cogs. It is literally just a button connected to a wireless transmitter (or cable-routed in case of Shimano 11-speed). That is frustrating, because I’d really like to just change my chainring, cassette and rear derailleur to upgrade to 13 speeds. I won’t hold my breath, though.
If the total width of the cassette did not change (or did not change too much) and the mechanism is precise enough, you might not even have to change rear derailleur. One can dream …
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I’m hoping the manufacturers will just stop at 12 cogs for road. I thought that 13 cogs was only possible with gravel cassettes (a larger large cog) unless the industry increased the width of the hub?
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Rotor managed to do it, but you needed a specific hub as Rotor did not make the cogs any narrower.
Might be a stock/aftermarket thing. I haven’t seen anything stock with a Force 50/37.
Red looks more bling anyway
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