The lifting of the wheels is all about how your body is weighted. If youāre centered you shouldnāt be lifting either wheel.
You only have to move your body an inch or two to get a wheel to lift. Itās a little annoying how sensitive it is!
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In my experience and reading anecdotal experience I think you can put 200 watts to your sprint with pure technique.
Iāve had this happen for me and Iāve seen others report it. When you really do everything pete laid out and you were bad before you can get a sprint that āclicksā and youāre suddenly a lot faster!
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We like doing seated sprints on the trainer, but thatās a different beast. I think my problem was that I was trying to do a low cadence sprint. Iām never doing that again! 
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Really helpful, thanks Pete, Nate, and team!
Regarding technique, you can practise the jump on a lowish speed over 5 to 6 seconds on a 52x16 or similar. Pick a lamppost or line in the road and just kick at a reasonable cadence and work on technique keeping form and recruiting the muscles. This is a good warm up technique when putting 5 of these together with 200m in between, finish with one full sprint using the practised technique. This can be part of an endurance ride once warmed up.
Awesome video, guys. I will give you my results of employing these techniques across three workouts.
Workout 1: I did a mostly Z2 ride with a few 600W or so āsprintsā just to focus on getting the form down and how it feels. I immediately noticed a few differences between Peteās technique and my own. First, I was leaning a bit too far forward. I corrected this using Peteās advice of feeling the nose of the saddle against the hamstrings. Second, I was not really locking out my upper body at all. Peteās deadlift analogy helps with this, as well as the ācircle of powerā method. I was more or less pulling the handlebars correctly, and my left/right sway of the bike feels smooth, but Iāll have to get video footage to tell for sure.
Workout 2: Did 5x5s all-out sprints, with about 7 minutes rest between. The first one I kind of miffed, but the second one felt good. I look down at my head unit and for the first time ever see four digits in 3 second power average! Ok, maybe a fluke, but then the next 3 sprints are even slightly higher. It actually worksā¦
Workout 3: Similar to the previous workout, but in the 10-15 second range and experimenting a bit with cadence. Still setting power PRs all over the place.
My best power improvement was 6s average, which went from 982 ā 1062 for an 80W (or 8.15%) simply from watching this video and applying the techniques within. No doubt these number can increase slightly after more practice. Hereās the resulting power curve improvements for this experiment:
I just feel silly for racing 6 years and never properly working on my sprint technique. Especially since I lost this yearās state RR by about a foot and had two other very close 2nd places in the past two months!
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Great job! Imagine if you did this 2x a week for a year!
Thanks guys, this is great. As an absolute CX newbie, I attended my first cross skill drop in session, and discovered that I have 0 ability to sprint from a standing start. With cross coming, any tips you have in that regard would be great. I find everyone pulls away from me in the first 3 seconds or so, and then I can pretty much hold onto the same gap, so itās really that initial 3-5 second acceleration that seems to kill me. Also, regarding sprinting in general, I find I really feel it in my hamstrings, does this indicate poor peddling technique, or is it normal to be pulling to that extent.
To me, this sounds like you might be starting off with a too big gear. By the time youāve managed to push it around the others have pulled away. Maybe try one or two cogs smaller and work on developing high leg speed if needed.
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Practice on getting clipped in.
Start seated in the saddle with dominant foot at around 10 oāclock. When you get clipped in, then stand up and start to sprint. Also try to figure out what gear works best for you. You should be shifting up a couple of times at the start of a CX race.
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@Nate_Pearson you need to bring back the seated sprints!
Did you see stage 8 finish of the vuelta today, Nikias Arndt (Sunweb) probly got inspired by you 
After watching this video a few times, something stands out. If you look at the front views, Nate does not seem to be producing leverage with his rocking motion. Heās whipping the bike side to side at the top of each stroke, instead of using it to apply force through the full stroke. Pete, on the other hand, is channeling more upper body force into the pedal stroke by pulling the bike over through the full downstroke. Heās applying tilt like a pumping action. The difference between them is like night and day. To my eye, Nateās sprint looks clipped, like heās not powering each stroke fully. I have to say it looks like typical trainer technique, where the bike doesnāt tilt and thereās no resulting leverage.
Shouldnāt we be concerned that too much time on the trainer can lead to this?
I can appreciate that pointing this out on a forum devoted to indoor training might not be welcome, but I do hope someone can address my question.
Personally for me, I followed this advice and managed to add another 100w to my sprint.
Sprint peak went from 1100 to now 1200w on a regular basis. I lock it down like a deadlift and try and snap the cranks off!
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Hey mate - I lift both wheels off in my intial kick 1360w, usually its the rear that people will kick off the ground but when your really pulling on the bars its quite normal for the front to come off for 1-2 seconds, scary at first then you get used to it. Your inertia will move you forward (not sideways). Ideally the rear should stay down to get all the power moving you forward.
Something taken from this video for me was where @Pete was on the bike when he initially kicked. Also where he had his elbows. I sprint arms in upper core braced as much as possible. So it was very interesting.
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I think itās fair enough - there arenāt any sprint workouts on TR (there are but only at 225% FTP), so in ERG mode you would never get to a full sprint.
I think it doesnāt matter whether youāre indoor or outside, if you donāt practice out of the saddle sprints, you wonāt get good at sprinting!
Nope.
Consider that Chad, Jonathan, Pete and many others in the world all spend a huge chunk of time inside on trainers. Then recognize that they all know how to sprint well, despite that trainer time.
Sure, Nate needs to work on his sprint. But do you say the same for the other examples?
No, because they all spent time to learn how to sprint, outside, and can reproduce that anytime they want now that itās well learned. Nate is doing the right thing by working on his sprint outside. Using help from other experienced riders, along with the video review, are super handy and will hopefully lead to him becoming a better sprinter with more correct technique.
This example shows that sprinting is something that needs work and the amount of work will vary from rider to rider. Itās impacted by prior experience and the amount of time they spend on learning and perfecting the skill.
This is not about trainers, itās about learning and applying a proper technique. This is best accomplished outside and under the guidance of experienced riders to help the process.
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Body mechanics have been an issue for me my whole life.
I have problems catching, throwing, swimming, etc. Iād say itās more about my life being tall and lanky and spending my teenage years messing with computers and playing in band.
And before I ever owned a trainer I still sprinted poorly and couldnāt put out much power 
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And Iāve never sprinted standing up inside. Just the occasional seated sprint.
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OK so nobody works on their sprint indoors, but arenāt you overlooking the fact that rocking the bike while climbing shares the same mechanics as sprinting? Should we just avoid doing anything out of the saddle while on the trainer? That would imply the only reason to train indoors is strictly for the conditioning, which in turn implies you need a healthy ratio of outdoor vs indoor training if you want to race well. I would be interested in what ratio both Pete and Nate train at.
For several reasons, too much indoor riding was frowned upon when I first got into training and racing. I seriously doubt smart trainers have solved those issues. Maybe rocker plates and motion rollers help in that respect, but your short video still does not show a fully natural looking sprint. Iād love to see that in slow mo, but thereās still something slightly out of phase there.
Nate, I feel bad for calling your technique into question. I hope you donāt take it personally.
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There is what I do and focus on for me:
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I spend a TON of time out of the saddle for my indoor cycling. I built my first rocker nearly 4 years ago because of that very need. I switched from my DIY motion rollers to a rigid smart trainer, and hated it. So I headed down the path of making my rocker to make regular standing efforts (not sprinting) more realistic and comfortable.
- Base on that, my answer to your question is a clear āNO, I am not overlooking itā. In fact, I probably spend more time standing on a trainer than your typical rider. Some workouts I am up around 1/3 of the total training time. Iāve even done around 50% in particular cases. So, there is no way I am overlooking it for my needs.
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Additionally, despite the fact that the left-right lean and pedal timing are essentially āthe sameā, there are big differences. The amount of rock and the overall application of forces at 60 rpm are necessarily different at 120 rpm.
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The muscle firing and overall application of forces are similar, but not identical. Itās very possible to be nice and clean standing at 60 rpm and totally fall apart above 90 rpm. You can see as much in ways by watching these sprint videos as you see the sprint effort, muscle work and body movement alter from the starting cadence up to the peak of the sprint.
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As a result, being good at one is not a guarantee to be good at the other. I do think having a decent standing effort up to 75 rpm may be a good building block for working on sprints, but it is not an absolute requirement either. A perfect but static 65 rpm standing doesnāt lead to perfect 115 rpm sprint.
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Add to that the general differences in overall body position, and there are fewer similarities and crossover than we might expect. So I donāt think the presence or absence of one means too much about the other.
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There is what I share and recommend for others:
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First, consider that the vast majority of inside riding and trainer took place on rigid trainers over the last 30 years or so. There are a few notable examples of motion in trainers from Kinetic, Elite, and Inside Ride (rollers) that added varying amounts of motion to trainers. But they were fringe and not typical.
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As such, all the standing that took place was on a rigid trainer. That forces a very odd adaptation form the rider that is not at all like we really do outside. We end up swaying our upper body instead of the bike like we do outside.
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And despite all that, I donāt think we can necessarily claim that all those hours standing on a trainer were somehow detrimental to our outside riding.
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Iāve even seen people make the erroneous claim that riding a trainer too much will lead to people āforgetting how to rideā a bike in the simple sense of balance and steering. That is no more true than someone spending an equal amount of time off the bike and having to āfind their balanceā again.
- My point in adding that tangent is that there is very little chance that the standing on a rigid trainer harms us in any measurable way.
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When I started the FB Rocker Plate group nearly 2 years ago, I saw the videos that people posted and noted the incorrect pedal/lean timing that was present in most of them. I did it to a point of annoyance to many in the group and it was brought to my attention.
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I had been applying MY ideal and preference on others, when that was totally unnecessary, un-requested, and downright rude. After that realization, I refrained from making those comments directly unless the poster actually requested my input or recommendation.
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Based on all that, I have a very restrained direction when it comes to rocking motion. The reality is that the comfort aspect is king, and that comes with the motion regardless of the direction.
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Even with the incorrect timing, I still see the added motion as beneficial when compared to the rigid option. So even though it may be āwrongā itās way less āwrongā than riding a rigid trainer in itās even worse adaptation.
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Absolutely not, and I donāt know how you get that implied from my comments.
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As I cover above, I support rocker use for this very purpose.
- It gives saddle pressure relief for one, and it also gives the shift in muscle loading that has itās own benefits, just like we apply it when riding outside.
- Yes, that is exactly what is most likely correct.
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Using a trainer inside for pure fitness gains is quite similar to strength training in a gym. We spend time lifting and moving mass in particular patterns, repetitions and such in an effort to force adaptations in our body.
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We donāt do a bench press or squats because those are the āexact sameā as the way we may use that increased strength in our outside lives. We do it to alter the body, pure and simple.
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Yes, we can improve the effectiveness of those exercises if we direct them in a more specific way to our intended needs. But they donāt gain a massive improvement in payback compared to not implementing them that way. Itās a marginal gain type of thing.
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Rockers are the same. They donāt need to totally transform the way we ride a rigid bike. But they can add a notable improvement that makes their use beneficial.
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The comfort aspect is king again, because it allows riders to spend more time on the trainer. That opens the door to more time with structured training that can yield great improvements in fitness.
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In a perfect world, where a rocker plate is an exact replication of the outside experience, the payback on that difference from what we have will be minimal at best.
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I say this as likely the biggest proponent in the world for adding motion to trainers. I have spent 4 years designing, building, analyzing and rethinking how to make these work better and more like outside. And yet, I have many more ideas I still need to try and see if they get us closer to that ideal.
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Despite that, there is ALWAYS going to be a need to ride outside and hone skills if someone plans to apply that fitness outside.
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No rocker plate will ever get to the point that it replaces things cornering skills, or the advanced needs of handling in mountain biking, cyclocross, etc.
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So yes, people better plan to work on their skill outside in addition to their inside fitness focus. Because we donāt have now and wonāt likely ever have anything that takes the place of real practice outside.
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The only way I think someone can ignore outside riding is if they choose to focus on being an āindoor specialistā and doing racing on something like Zwift.
- But for anyone who wants to apply their fitness outside, they better plan to include it as appropriate for their needs. Those needs can and do vary (just like we see between Nate and Pete with respect to sprinting), so the particular skills to work on will vary in the same way.
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That is entirely possible to be down to old dogma and crappy attitudes about how miserable inside training used to be.
- I argue this topic with others, but will refrain from that here unless you want to discuss it more and offer specifics that can be identified and discussed.
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I made not claims to have a perfect sprint. NONE.
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I do claim that my basic timing is more correct than what is shown by many others. My left-right lean is basically aligned with the proper foot position and hand pressures.
- I am an OK sprinter at best, and one that does not practice it as often as I should. Point being that I have room to improve, but am still able to apply a relatively correct effort inside and outside. It happens to be something I donāt need to use often, so I donāt practice it like other skills that do use more frequently.
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Despite the potential for my less than perfect sprint, recognize the pure fact that sprinting on a trainer in any typical use will make up a VERY SMALL amount of the time spent training.
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As I said above, I do spend a large chunk of my trainer time in standing efforts at the typical 55-75 rpm cadence for climbing efforts, but that is a very different best from sprinting.
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I do sprint as demonstrated, but I would bet itās less than 5% of my total time on the trainer. I think it is more likely to be less than 1%, but this is all guessing anyway.
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As such, it makes up an effectively tiny amount of time and is not enough to detract from my outside sprints. If anything, I should be focusing on this effort outside, and working on form as covered in this post.
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Sorry for the word bomb, but the topics are anything but simple. I felt that the reality requires detailed comments, and I am ādetailsā kind of person who has spent a significant amount of time thinking about and working on trainer motion.
Very much an aside, but I feel the need to mention it. I think you could evaluate your approach to these rocker plate related posts. In particular, your post to Ray on the Kickr E-Flex is nearly confrontational and not at all necessary in the tone that came across (to my reading at least, and what I gather based on Rayās reply).
I make a suggestion, along the lines of what happened to me above, to step back and evaluate your posting. Realize that your desires, needs and concerns may or may not be shared by the audience. Acting as those others are āwrongā is not the best way to win converts, if that is the goal.
I suggest a bit more consideration in the future is all.
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