This - I’m glad to see someone state the case precisely.
The biggest difference in speed between the S-Works and the Pro is that the Pro has round spokes. Round spokes are probably sucking about 10 watts at race speeds.
I’d buy the Pro for $7K over the $12-13K S-Works and then buy an extra set of race wheels if you need those 10 watts back.
@Fred-on-Tarmac For sure and my next bike might be Sworks (or do same as below) but it probably will be a Diverge for some gravel. I got and love my 2020 Tarmac comp as it has ultegra di2 and disc. it is my first di2 and disc bike and would never go back.
I knew the wheels were rubbish but the plan was to get Enve’s from the start. I saved a boat load going with the Enve 5.6 disc and still ended up coming in at least $5K less than Sworks. I have ridden my buddies Sworks and it is a sweet bike with amazing paint.
For me though something about Specialized feels special when I am riding it. I had one Trek Emonda in the past and it was nice (on trainer full time) but I am definitely a Specialized person now.
Diverge is a great gravel bike! I rented one for riding with my son (Cat B college racer at the time) on some fire roads, gravel and hard packed dirt and even on some open roads in Vermont. Tons of fun!!! A couple of olympic champion friends of mine in my area bought them and told me that they totally love them.
Great wheels can certainly help most bikes. A few years back the shop upgraded the Roval CL wheels that came with my Roubaix with CLX’s and that helped. But, its hard to describe the improvements attainable from the S-Works Tarmac frame. However, I have no doubt that you will get great enjoyment from your current set up. Have fun!
Regarding Trek Edmonda: I had a Trek for 14 years before buying my Roubaix 5 years ago. So naturally I wanted to try the Edmonda before buying the Tarmac. My son and I rented them for a day and took them on a long ride in the countryside of Austin. I would describe it as weak with very little frame responsiveness. Very disappointing! IMO, Trek has lost its edge in the racing bike category. But I am glad I tried it.
That is what I have heard about the Diverge and more than likely would buy model with di2 and then pair with Enve as I love them.
My Trek is still a great bike but not in the same league ride wise (yes they are different geos). For me though di2 full syncro/disc has been so awesome. Don’t really need it but once you have it, hard to go back.
I recommend getting a subscription to Tour Int Magazine via your phone, then wade through the German.
In short - the worst case bike at 35kph (???) with a half dummy on it was ~235w for a full round tube bike with nothing aero. The best were 205w. The new Tarmac sworks came in at 210w or something in some config. That doesn’t give you speed, but it gives you some other odd number.
They also mathematically try to quantify the weight and aero-ness on different course profiles. Worst (TCR) to best(Cervelo S5) on a flat course was a 1m20sec slower (.4mph) over 36miles. I’d imagine your current bike is at the same level as the TCR.
For the money, I would get neither Specialized, nor S-works unless buying used, with the crazy way the cycling market is right now. You have lots of new riders buying stuff, then selling it a few months later in like new condition…I notice that especially if you ride a smaller frame bike. If you really want a brand new bike, it’s pretty damn hard to beat Canyon…if someone knows, inform me, please.
As I described for @Fred-on-Tarmac, the performance difference really depends on the type of riding you do and, thus, whether you can take advantage of such difference (and afford the cost difference).
In my case, as I do “spirited” group rides and road races (pre- and post- Covid), if there were such differences I wanted to understand them. The LBS that I buy my bikes from (largest NorCal Specialized dealer) let me take the Tarmac Pro and S-Works each out for a full day (actually I had them longer). I did simulated race testing, including: standing start accelerations, max watt efforts on open road (600-900), hill climbs (8-18%), cornering and descents with sharp turns. As I use TP Premium & WKO5, i did a comparative analysis of results where applicable and recorded several qualitative experiences for each ride as well. The differences between the bikes were very clear to me and I was able to afford the price difference (it was a special treat ) such that I made the S-Works purchase. To this day (1.5 years on the bike), I still love the bike and am glad I made the decision that I did. But I do understand those that can’t afford or can’t justify the price difference.
Didn’t Specialized come out and say the only difference in the sworks vs 10r frame in the sl7 is weight?
I would take this to mean no change in ride quality or aerodynamics. I like the sworks as much as the next guy but i don’t think it’s going much faster unless you are going significantly uphill.
I don’t doubt that different components (especially wheels, tires, handlebars) can make a huge difference. Regarding the frame only I highly doubt that anyone feels the difference between these models if there are no stickers on it. Even uphill I doubt you can feel a 100-200g difference.
But no judgement here. I love bike tech the same way like a lot of people here. I also like to choose the best things available within my budget and love saving a few grams wherever I can (recently - saddle bag and tools). It’s a fun part of the hobby. But I’m aware there is no real significant performance gain in that. If it’s about performance there are way more low hanging fruits than high end bike tech (sleep, nutrition, training).
What’s the difference between FACT 12r and 10r framesets?
The main differences between these two frame levels is the carbon layup and the materials used. Both frames share the same design and there is no difference in the handling or ride
quality between them.
The Tarmac and Roubaix are both pure road bikes. The Tarmac is stiffer and more aero, which is why it is so popular amongst road racers. The Roubaix has a slightly more relaxed geometry and more absorption. It is really popular for endurance riding, such as centuries.
Diverge is a gravel bike. It’s reasonably similar to a Roubaix, but has more clearance for larger tires. It also is often outfitted with a single chain ring and a much wider gear range in the rear deraileur (up to 50 cogs).
I’m sure it will ride superbly, but there is no mention of any aero measures on the TCR advanced for 2019.
The 2021 version has aero tube shaping, but still likely to be less aero than any of the pure aero bikes, including the Giant Propel.
A full blown aero bike saves 30w at 35kph in the above example, likely more at a higher speed. #aeroiseverything
You may much prefer the handling of the TCR advanced however.
Go on your phone and download a German Language magazine called Tour Int - https://www.tour-magazin.de/ . They have probably the most credible aero tests out there. You can probably criticize how they configure the bikes (why doesn’t XYZ have the aero handlebars? why don’t the bikes have a water bottle? ) and how they do the sweep in the tunnel, but its the best we’ve got. They use a half dummy at reasonable speeds with stock and control wheels. They also test the frames on a jig. TOUR - Magazin im App Store https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pressmatrix.tourmagazin
Anyway, get a subscription, search the back issues, as exact config of the bike matters.
Is this simply a weight thing? Are you saying the s-works would handle and ride as it’s lesser models, only difference is weight? As i have the Pro and that feels like a rocket ship!