When you’re the best at something, that’s what people look to do. Lots of people have been aiming to take them down for quite a while. A number of reasons for it, and first and foremost when you dominate, people don’t like it. There are plenty of teams out there in sports that people despise which just amounts to not more than envy. That’s a big part of it, IMO. These guys created and promoted a brand off on their own. Lots of people do that in lots of different fields, and a lot of other people don’t like that. Of course it’s all about them. That’s what marketing is. But they’re out there competing… go beat them. That’s the only way to make them less relevant.
All these other folks with the “bad for American cycling.” Give me a break. The publicity behind Legion has plenty of people energized for bike racing in Southern California and no one else has near the following they do in the sport.
Most of the criticisms just come off as gatekeeping - something cycling is well known for - and sour grapes, IMO.
You are right in many ways. Dominance isn’t necessarily a bad thing, if you look at something like Golf with Tiger Woods, the difference I see there is that despite him getting 98% of the attention all the time when he was in his pomp, what it did was made pretty much every golfer re-evaluate their game. They started hitting the gym and over time the level of golf became so much better, far more players were capable of winning.
From afar, the danger with the US cycling is that it seems more like it’ll turn people off? (not sure if thats the case).
Now. I need to hear what they are talking about.
Because many say “Justin threw the first punch” but Hernandez seem to be very aggro right before the punch was thrown. None of un were there. We have no idea what really happen but just a bunch of short videos of specific areas of the race.
There seem to be a lot people upset about Legion. I dont follow crit, but it seems mostly everyone who do it rides very aggressively. Why is that an issue now?
Seems like most of the danger is kinda inherent to crit racing, I’m no expert but in the video it looks like the best buddies guy initiated contact in a corner, then the legion guy did an amazing job to save a crash. The best buddies guy seemed mostly upset because he thought it was intentional. I like legion, all the people I’ve interacted with on the team we’re nice, they have a super strong woman’s team, overall seem cool. Most bike racing involves certain teams building the strongest rosters then using them to control races to win them, nothing new to me.
Edit: forgot to say that punching is never cool and all who got physical should def be punished!!
I think you make a very valid point, many times I cheer the underdog and humans like to see the big guy take a fall.
From my vantage point, it does seem like legion tries to OWN the course, and that’s what I don’t like. They seem, from my view, to be bullies about it. But hey, I don’t know enough about it and maybe that’s what everyone does? If so, unfair on my part to judge.
Yea, because when a family with kids comes to watch a bike race and a huge fight breaks out after, that’s just a part of cycling isn’t it? Throwing punches at the finish line is normal. Gonna have all the kids wanting to sign up for that.
Yep, I’m gatekeeping because I’m not a fan of fist fights. I guess we should just allow it. I guess bike racing being bike racing is crazy, let’s make it more American and add UFC.
You’d think Legion would be more aware of how bad they will look throwing punches. And it doesn’t even matter who was right or who was wrong or who cut who off. They look like bullies and idiots. It’s just stupid bike racing.
Here’s the punch throwing video. I see Legion #5 start it and then Legion #6 (Justin?) grab hold of the national champ. And then #5 tries to throw more punches while #6 is holding. (And I think #6 was just trying to neutralizing it.)
The thing I don’t get is, there have been plenty of dominant pro-tour level lead out trains and domestic ones like UHC that I don’t recall getting into this amount of drama and getting this level of disapproval. To me, its less about the dominance and more about how they conduct themselves. Crit racing should be about who gets across the line first not putting people into barriers or into curbs. I’m not saying that is what happened here but I stopped tracking their social media due to how they glorify negative or unsportsperson like behavior. Talk about being a bunch of sore winners…
The sole fact that they’re winning isn’t the issue. It’s how they’re winning (and losing) that people are taking issue with. When Sky/Ineos was dominating the Tour every year, yea maybe people thought it was a little boring, but most people didn’t dislike the team or riders. Why? Because they’re good people on and off the bike. They beat you with skill and ability, not by dirty racing. You ever see G or Egan getting in fist fights after races? You see Froome posting videos laughing about head butting other races or crashing them out? People are mad because they don’t want fist fights or deliberately harming people in races.
Then they put out a response basically saying, you can’t complain about us, we’re growing the sport. It’s the self centered, we can do whatever we want, consequences and health be damned attitude that puts people off. It’s not the winning.
Cycling is not that kind of sport, elbows happen, the odd head butt on the bike happens but post race brawls are not what it’s about and it’s pretty shameful that the legion guys are doing this. Not exactly a good example for kids getting into the sport… Shame on them.
Sitting out of todays race after a win last night, irks me to my core. I have been racing bikes since I was 6 years old. I’ve been racing in Europe since I was 15 years old. I’ve raced with the best riders in the world. I’ve been spit on, cussed at in every language, bottles thrown at me, crashed out because I tried to ride in another teams lead out train. With consequences like that you learn real quick right from wrong and proper race etiquette. Go race in Europe for a month and then sit down and be humble. Instead of staring at your stem and obsessing about your power numbers go practice some skills. The amount of disrespect I’ve received while wearing this jersey in the US racing scene is astonishing. Since I started racing at the pro level when I was 18 there was something called respect in bike racing. Respect the jersey and people better than you. Now that I get the honor of wearing a jersey, that I idolized as a young athlete aspiring to be that champion one day, I get verbally abused in every race and riders intentionally riding aggressive towards me and my teammates. Which has caused us to over ride and be defensive so we don’t crash. Followed by an insurmountable amount of hate online. Take a look at yourselves and figure out what you’re actually mad at. I’m out here with my team trying to race bikes and inspire people to get into this sport. But honestly I wouldn’t want to bring someone new into this race environment, it’s absolutely toxic and a despicable representation of professional racing. You want to help make this sport a better more positive and welcoming place, then be better.
There needs to be a sociology study on the cycling community’s emotional response to Legion. You’d think they either physically pissed in your coffee or solved world hunger. A couple things to point out because people don’t seem to actually care about what happened in this incident, they just want to argue Legion Good or Legion Bad. To summarize: in this specific instance, Legion isn’t the boogeyman you so want them to be.
Nats jersey caused the incident that ultimately ended up with him going into the gutter. Could Cory have corrected course before making it that far left? Maybe, but at that point, the incident is not his fault, and frankly most riders would have gone down and taken the entire second half of the peloton with them.
People playing the “Legion got what they deserved” and “they can’t handle when somebody pushes back on them”… On everything I’ve seen, including Cory’s own instagram, he never once complained about getting elbowed or rough racing, his complaints were about how Nats jersey, the peloton, and most of the internet was blaming him for the corner and the cherry-picked a single gutter photo to “prove” Cory was dirty. And IMO he was rightfully upset, because despite what may have happened in other races, this was not on him.
The same people above saying “Legion does this all the time” and complaining about how it’s dangerous, a bad look for the sports, needs to be punished, etc. have not said a single word about how Hernandez should be punished, how it was dirty, dangerous, etc. Do you have a problem with the actual behavior or don’t you? Seems like it’s just an issue when Legion is the one bullying. But when they “get bullied” it’s almost gleeful.
The punch is not acceptable. But if you’re a grown man waiting after an incident (which again, was his own damn fault) to confront an entire team, and then you refuse to calm down (despite Cory trying to distance him from Justin) there is a pretty good chance you’re getting punched. Not acceptable. Entirely predictable. On the live stream one of the last things they say is, “Hernandez looks like he’s looking for somebody”. Yea, he was looking to start something. It was obvious to everybody there, including the commentators who were just as confused as everybody else was as to what happened… Then it started. Not shocking.
Never said he was. Both are idiots. But the fact that Legion always is at the center of sh!t like this tells you something. This isn’t the first time words from another person has sparked physical aggression from Legion.
Fixed it for you.
Or even:
There needs to be a sociology study on the cycling community’s unwavering support for a bunch of guys who start fights on camera and claim they’re saints.
Ohhhh, so doing it this past weekend was totally fine? Because it was the first time they threw punches instead of their normal elbows and grabbing other racers by their jerseys or head butting.
Criterium racing is dangerous. It does turn people off. Many of my teammates simply won’t race crits anymore, and not one of us has ever toed the line in any meaningful way with Legion. Blaming Legion for dangerous crits is kind of funny to me.
I don’t think you’re here to discuss anything in good faith, so I tread cautiously even responding to you. Legion’s record in criterium racing is absurd. That Hernandez won Elite Nats doesn’t mean they aren’t dominant. Dominant doesn’t mean you win every single race in bike racing. Anyone who argues Legion isn’t the dominant criterium racing team in America doesn’t know what they’re talking about, IMO.
The man you pictured: 1) caused the chain of events that led to his own crash and DNF by making contact from behind (out of position) with Cory, nearly taking Cory out in a corner. Cory saved himself, but came unclipped and did what he could to stay up after his front wheel was wiped out; 2) approached Legion after they had gone 1-5 in the SLC crit (dominant), threatening to fight Justin among others; 3) had to be held back by other racers even before Justin threw the punch.
I am NOT - repeat - NOT defending Justin throwing a punch, there is no excuse for that. But there is more than enough blame to go around, and you pushing Hernandez like he’s some kind of hero here is absurd. Go watch all of the various videos that are out there, and if you still feel like Legion alone is to blame here, then we’ve got nothing further to discuss.
Fair points, I don’t like the way their sweeper races and that video of him moving people off Cory’s wheel was a bad look. I agree.
But comparing tour racing and criterium racing is comparing apples to oranges. Legion absolutely controls the course, but generally they do that by going faster than anyone else can go for the final XXX number of laps, making it very hard to get around them, and then they hold the integrity of their leadout line. About the only way to get into it is to make contact. As happened here, Hernandez was trying to push Cory off the wheel Cory had position on, Cory stayed up and Hernandez went down in the process.
The comments about “attitude” and “bullies” are absolutely what I mean about “gatekeeping”. You have to win the way people want you to win, or else it counts for less and is open to criticism. A few years ago, these were not comments being made about Legion, and they were racing the same way then as they are now.
As to the comments about on and off the course being good people: I’ve met Justin and Cory, I race the race series that’s in their neighborhood, along with a few other races that the Williams brothers specifically race every year. They are accommodating to kids, sign autographs, take pictures, talk to literally anyone who approaches them. People in the local fields here not only respect them, but most everyone I know genuinely likes them (and Sam Boardman is absolutely awesome, too). This season after Justin’s crash at one of the races in Compton in the final corner, three of his fellow racers from a rival team rode back to him and helped tend to him. If people hated the Williams brothers as much as some of you, that kind of thing doesn’t happen.
Again, NOT defending Justin throwing a punch in any way.
Lots of opinions here and all have good points but i think Hernandez had it right confronting L39ion about their actions and their style of racing. Really no other person more qualified to say something because 95% of the rest of the peloton that races with these guys are too afraid.
The vid of Hernandez with the elbow was just a reaction of Cory turning in on him and is part of racing. Having raced crits for decades now (not well and not at this level) its easy to see:
how this happens - so much adrenalin post race that its all to common…my last crit a few weeks ago there was a yelling match over a lapped rider not pulling over far enough and “ruining” a sprint not for 1st. threats of punching were exchanged…it happens
state of US racing - With l39gion there’s one dominate team that happens to race a little dirty (and it is just a little, 99% of the time its superior tactics, power and L39ion numbers) and now its catching up with them. People compare them to Sky but i dont think you can because a long road race or TT is not a crit. When there is one dominate team with little resources for the others to scrap for this type of dynamic is gonna happen.
usac officiating - i’m a big supporter of USAC but do not get at all how Hernadez got the larger fine?! Having had botched results in my last 3 crits i’m a little perturbed but i’m not gonna argue over my sh*&y placing…but i respect what they do and at the same time here i think they were very quick to judge and impose fines before they checked out all the evidence that is coming out. One question, who threw the first punch?
jersey in the US racing scene is astonishing. Since I started racing at the pro level when I was 18 there was something called respect in bike racing. Respect the jersey and people better than you. Now that I get the honor of wearing a jersey, that I idolized as a young athlete aspiring to be that champion one day, I get verbally abused in every race and riders intentionally riding aggressive towards me and my teammates. Which has caused us to over ride and be defensive so we don’t crash. Followed by an insurmountable amount of hate online. Take a look at yourselves and figure out what you’re actually mad at. I’m out here with my team trying to race bikes and inspire people to get into this sport. But honestly I wouldn’t want to bring someone new into this race environment, it’s absolutely toxic and a despicable representation of professional racing. You want to help make this sport a better more positive and welcoming place, then be better.