to see if/when aerobic capacity development is stalling out. That chart is from WKO5 starting Jan 1, 2020 and I annotated with training and testing info.
This was vintage bahzob, the guy who created the “Am I The Best Cyclist on Wattage” thread on the Google Wattage Group a few weeks back.
Look, if you’re under 60, you don’t want your VO2 max to be your age. If you’re over 60 and your VO2 is your age or better, great, you can thank your parents for most of that, and your training program for a little, little bit.
My favorite is to exit left off the Siberia Express chairlift at Squaw Valley. Then drop off the ledge just like the men did at the 1960 Olympic downhill.
And there is also this article that hard start is also helpful with estimating power at vo2 max and correlates nicely with lab measured VO2 max (I know it is about power @vo2 max but can be interesting):
I agree that genetics is a big piece, but I’m not so sure about the training statement. I’m no expert, but Friel’s “Fast over 50” book is pretty adamant that Vo2max rate of decline as we age is highly dependent on training. If someone is pushing near 70 ml/min in their 60’s, they certainly have good genetics, but I’d bet that most of those years involved significant aerobic training.
VO2max decreases at a very similar - although not entirely identical - rate in both untrained and highly trained individuals (i.e., blue and purple lines almost parallel).
Now if Friel means that you have to keep at it to hold onto your hard-won gains, then he’s apparently right. (Note the more rapid rate of decrease in the runners who reduced their training intensity, or stopped running entirely.)
That sounds like one of the studies Friel referenced. All those runners starting at 70 had decent genetics, but the bottom drops out once you sit on the couch for a bit. Use it or lose it.
I did a gas exchange test a couple years ago. It was above what @bbarrera and WKO+5 methods and just below @GilbertsGrapes method. From lowest to highest approximately 9 units. This seems to be such a passionate topic I’ll keep my opinion to myself as to the usefulness of testing or estimating relative VO2max. One thing having done an actual test if you want to attain a larger relative number…work on getting leaner.
its “free” in WKO5 and along with % ftp/vo2max can (sometimes) tell me something. But if vo2max wasn’t free then I wouldn’t go pay for a test. Its kinda like getting an IQ test, interesting number at a Mensa cocktail party but what do you really do with it?
old_but_not_dead_yet: actually if you look at thechanges in proportional terms, then training has a substantial effect – obviously in terms of having a high VO2max, but also holding on to it.
From the graph you cite, as a proportion of their age 20 VO2max, these people had by the age of 70 declined to: 86% [runner, high intensity], 76% [runner, reduced], 50% [runner, stopped], 76% [trained] and 64% [untrained]. Training not only raises VO2max; and keeping on training holds on to it more effectively.
You have to maintain a combination of volume and intensity to slow the decline, but our hearts handle maintaining that volume and intensity differently as we age, and then there is substantial individual variation on top of that. Training 12-15 hours a week and putting some zone 5 intensity on top of it might be great for maintaining VO2 max as we age, and it could also end up triggering Afib, SVTs, dialating one’s left ventricle, or other “permanent mods” that we’d like to avoid.
Some would say this is Chicken Little territory, but I’d argue that if you’re over 50 and you’re still doing high-octane training, you should really have an EKG and ECO every January or February, just to check in with how the engine room is doing.
The WKO4 may be closer as I was a bit tired for the test.
Garmin is ofc high because it basically works out power/hr and my hr goes down when I’m in the middle of a bout of training. Still its pretty good eh??
Thats good as my anaerobic capacity is totally pathetic. The INSCYD test measures this as a specific value so I know that for sure if I didn’t already form my inability to sprint my way out of a paper bag
Do you use Zpower? If so check out the guy in second place on the Alpe du Zwift segment 60+
He is over 70 and did it in 35 minutes averaging 5.8w/kg.
I’m pretty sure he is legit not an ebiker. Here is his strava profile
He’s an Australian ex-pro.
Not sure of his number but for sure it’s much better than mine so must be over 70.
Rick Sorenson isn’t 70 yet but if he keeps training then he may be 70/70 eventually.
Serious point here. Data on VO2 decline comes from ex professionals since they are the only ones with reliable history. Outliers like the folks above prove how unreliable extrapolating to their specific population is let alone the general one.
From a longitudinal study of specific individuals over several decades controlling for all other variables such as general health and training practice.
Unless this methodology is used any estimate is very suspect.
For the exact same reason that we keep being bombarded by discoveries that this that or the other food or diet will either let us live forever or kill us before the year is out. It’s a very complex area and bloody difficult to differentiate causality given the number of variables in play.
