Saturday I did 4,000 kJ and Sunday I did 3,500 kJ, all inside (total time was 8.5 hours)
Thanks for proving my point.
How does that prove your point? It’s clearly possible.
Your point, as I understand it, is that people riding indoors are likely to be burning less kJ than those riding outdoors. That, however, assumes that time is not the rate limiting factor.
I think most of us would agree you burn more calories/hour indoors than outdoors in most circumstances. For a time limited athlete (i.e. most people) it is a bit of a fallacy to assume you would burn less total kJ training indoors than outdoors.
If time is not a constraining factor then yes, I agree with your point. But since most people only have so many hours available to ride the actual limiters of riding indoors do not come into play
ETA: I rode indoors this past weekend because I had obligations that limited my time. To do 4,000 kJ outdoors would’ve taken me longer than the 4.5 hours it took me on the trainer and I didn’t have the time in my day. Obviously the scale of my ride/time constraints are different than most people, but this would apply regardless of where the time limit comes in
Well both upper body musculature and fat are just dead weight for a cyclist and to become the best cyclist you could be you should lose both but of course us mere mortals can opt to keep the musculature
Ditto, as a similarly skinny guy:
- Under 145lbs [66kg] and 5’ 10" [178cm], I can say that is pretty lean.
- I am about 13% BF per the regular person option on my scale (7% athlete setting).
- More than once I have gotten the “Are you OK?” question because of my general lean (some think emaciated) look.
- All that to say that weight is not the issue I would be looking at changing here either.
That’s why I say we should compare our ftp by height not weight (the way to do that is ftp/h² or ftp/kg×bmi not ftp/h because ftp correlates linearly with weight and weight linearly with h²)
There is no harm in being this BMI. I think that adding a few lbs of muscle to the frame is the most efficient way to achieve better athletic performance in OP’s case.
nobody say that it was impossible.
You are part of the minority I contemplated
Let me help you. I’m trying to make a general statement that is robust to individual anecdotes… It’s a conditional probability exercise. It’s proven that most people don’t like to ride indoor for long sessions, and it’s also proven that when the weather gets nice, people go riding outside much more than indoor. It’s also probably true, but I don’t know if the data is out there, that people that ride >12 hours a week tend to ride outside more.
So knowing that somebody trains mostly indoor, gives me a decent probability that they burn less kj than somebody that rides outdoor. Of course individual variability exists.
It seems you are saying that time is the real factor for knowing how many kJ someone burns, not inside/outside. But that from your perspective, it follows that inside limits time. Why not just say that riding time is the meaningful thing, not indoor/outdoor? Why guess/assume anything, we know time limits energy expenditure. Stick to the knowns, don’t add on any assumptions
because they are not independent. time constrains are not the only reason some people prefer indoors.
What does indoor vs riding outdoors have to do with the road to 4 w/kg if they both get the same results?
Very tangential…is just a branch of a branch of the main topic. 
That’s a biggie. Getting enough training in the winter is essential. Else you just need to use most of the spring to rebuild lost fitness instead of progressing.
This gets more important as you get older, though.
Volume and frequency of training are the most critical things. Then high intensity training and the right intensity distribution.
I don’t think diet is particular important if you are eating “normally”. If you were a heavy guy it would be a different matter.
I think reaching one’s absolute potential takes a good 8000-10000 hours.
8-10 years of proper pro-nutjob training.
If one’s absolute ceiling is 4wkg then that is what it takes to be a rider who can ride at 4wkg over a mountain pass at the end of a 5 hour ride on the last day of a 7 day race.
Because that is the meaning of being a 4wkg rider. Not some calculation based on a 10 min ramp test.
And it takes 10000 hours.
It’s a combo of training consistently, eating right, and the right genetics
Related but a bit off topic - how many of you reached 4w/kg on a low volume plan vs mid/high volume?
I was around 4wkg when I bought my power meter 3 years ago - this was after 3 years of non-structured and inconsistent cycling but some longer milage in the summer and even some 200km+ rides. I just rode to have fun and explore my limits. I think this was a really important time to build my base and skills on the bike.
I was 5’9 and 65kg at the time.
I think OP can reach 4wkg in a short period of time with consistent structured training but might pleateu or burn out if he doesn’t have a decent base to build up on.
MV (with a bit extra). HV would burn me out
As a lightly built guy in your early 30s, some kind of functional strength work and enough protein in your diet to support the work sounds like a great idea to me. Plyometrics, kettlebells, basic weight lifting, whatever works for you.
Won’t directly translate into w/kg but will support your work on the bike and building/maintaining a functional, healthy body.
Building a big engine takes consistent work over a long period of time. It took me a couple years and some weight loss to get to 4w/kg. It is a good milestone but FTP is just a metric for setting your training zones, lots of different things that go into being fast on the bike that you can work on at the same time.
I find this discussion interesting and theoretical. At 56, no way I’m ever getting to 4w/kg.
I raced like 30 years ago and we used to do this yearly fun ride up a mountain and it would take exactly an hour. From that effort I was able to model my power from 30 years ago. I came up with a 300-320 watt FTP which was around 3.8-4 watts/kg. This was also a fall post-season effort so maybe I was a little above 4 watt/kg during the peak season.
To get there today, I’d have to add 75 watts to my FTP and get to my most optimistic weight ever. It’s not going to happen again at 56.