I would agree that nobody cares how you finish in a cat 4/5 race. They also don’t care how anyone finishes a P123 or pretty much any race except for TdF, and even there, who finished 4th in 2017? (don’t Google it). Cycling is a niche sport, and even if it wasn’t, you’re not really doing it for external validation. My point is that I’m agreeing with whoever said that any result, in any race, is an achievement, the rest is noise.
Your move sounds like it was solid enough, but it didn’t work and you’re 2nd guessing. Sounds about right. Now rinse and repeat. I’d agreed that maybe a slightly more effective late race move would be 5km to go, for the reasons mentioned. For successful breaks, there’s often a sweet spot in the race where there’s been a series of attacks and yours is the one to finally go. They’re early enough that the pack thinks they’re have time to drag them back, but not so early that the break will run out of gas.
This sounds like my first race. Went 2 miles out, got caught 200m from the line and came about 30th. Had much more fun than when I tried to be more conservative in the races after.
I’ll tell you how I deal with those types of memories: they bother the f**k out of me from the moment they happen until this very day. If you’re on a ride with me I’ll whine about it when we ride past the spot. Sometimes when I’m in the middle of a time trial I’ll think about those missed opportunities. I have dreams about them. It bugs the shyte out of me.
So I would advise you that, mentally, your reaction is right on.
Start with the notion that the problem wasn’t your tactic, it was your fitness. 648W for 1:10 needs to be 675W. Or 650 for 1.5 minutes.
Now, the next time you’re at the end of a block and you think you might want to skip today’s workout…or the next time you’re on the last interval and you’d like to backpedal…imagine you’re right back at that m-effin’ spot 150m from the damn finish without the legs to close the deal. Is that what you want? That shitty feeling? Or do you want to finish the g-d damned interval? Which is it?
Alot of comments here saying ‘nobody cares about winning’ xyz level racing. I try not to race based on what anyone cares/thinks. Unless your a pro, does any elses opinions matter to you? Learning to race for my own sense of reward, not others is very important for me. I care about winning my races, no matter what grade they are, thats just how i like to race. Don’t let anyone else tell you that you ‘shouldn’t care’ about how you finish any level of racing. There is no one size fits all, learn what you care about and stick to your own values.
Well said. For some, 4/5 is “just passing through”, and for others, cat 3 or 4 might be the peak. Again, the level of difference in how much anyone cares about a USA Crit series win vs a 4/5 crit is pretty marginal. Do I think there’s a difference? Of course, but I’d be stoked with the 4/5 win (if that was my cat) or winning the town line sprint.
Doesn’t sound like a fail to me, I’d class a fail as not finishing or feeling you didn’t get it all out. Put it down as a learning experience (sounds like you put it all out but perhaps a little too early, perhaps you should have let others do some more work and put it all out in a later sprint). Consider it a success in gaining valuable racing tactics and the next time you’ll turn that 24th into a top 10
Win or learn. It comes with experience. The good news is, you know something now you didn’t know before. I’ve thrown a ton of attacks that didn’t work, but the fact that you were willing to do it shows you’ll progress as a racer. A lot of people just sit in line and wait for the sprint over and over again. You sent it. It didn’t work. It won’t work more often than it will… so learn and tweak your move for next time.
I used to do this kind of thing and it never worked. I probably would have done better in field sprints, but I was always too timid. I suppose that I might regret some of the races where the move I made wasn’t worth trying, but not much.
I’d call it a good experiment! Look at how often the 1k attack works at the pro level - hardly ever!!
Cat 4/5 can be tough and frustrating. People are at all sorts of fitness levels. A lot of the guys that would win cat 4 often have cat 2-3 engines. They blow through the 4s in one or two seasons grabbing a lot of podiums and then they would move on to become pack fodder in the 3s or 2s. If you have a cat 4 engine, it can be frustrating because you need superior race craft to get the podium.
The more you race the more you’ll get to know the courses and the regulars in your field, and you’ll get to know their abilities. You’ll learn who you can drop, who’s stronger than you, who’s wheel you need to be on (as well as who’s wheel to stay away from), and when/where to make your move. I’d personally spend these first races getting to know these things and use them to inform your tactics in future races so you can, hopefully, win.
Finally, you stayed upright in a 4/5 race… I’d call that a good result.
I don’t think this is good advice. I used to react like that and sometimes still do, but this attitude is quite toxic and prevents actually learning from mistakes, if there were any. That’s doubly true if you set yourself the wrong and/or unrealistic goals. It clouds your judgement and blocks you mentally.
How do you know the issue wasn’t tactics? I don’t think it makes much sense to start with the assumption that it was lack of fitness, because it shifts your focus away from race craft. Once you have enough fitness to stay with the front group, I think positioning is much more important than having a few extra watts in your legs for another 10 seconds. Experienced racers save watts by being more efficient when moving through the pack and when drafting.
Yeah, and there are Cat >3 youngsters in Cat 5 that are supremely fit, but haven’t accumulated enough points. Racing at that level isn’t easy. Where I live, there isn’t a Master’s category in a lot of races, which also makes things harder. I (= 40 years) have to compete with guys half my age.
massive kudos dude. Do you know how many people will sit there and never even sprint, and get 7th. Not to mention, 650W for 70s is huuuuuge watts for cat 4/5; you won’t be there very long.
This is the time to put yourself out there and constantly try to win. Roll the dice.
Sounds like a great move and just didn’t work out that time. Had you won, it would have been the best move of your racing life.
Don’t second guess. When there is that voice that says “GO NOW”, if you wait, even for a split second, and think about it, the time passed. It’s just that instinct; and yes, it gets better and better the more you race.
it never ends. and you’ll replay races in your head forever, just don’t get caught up on them as losses, they are lessons.
let us know how the next race turns out!!! good luck!!!
You tried to win. Why on Earth would anybody try and get a top ten, when any kind of win was on the table?
IMHO, a top ten in an amateur road race, somewhere on the face of the Earth, amounts to very little. It’s really no different to 24th. However, attempting to win, going all in. Huge respect. You are a proper racer.
Maybe, you could have gone slightly earlier, paced the attack differently, it’s impossible to know for certain. What’s paramount, is you tried. Most don’t.
Don’t question your attempt. You’ll never win if you aren’t prepared to lose. That’s demonstrated endlessly in all manner of cycling disciplines. Boiled down, it’s a math. Complex, high level math, happening in real time. Don’t hesitate to do the same again, if you think it’s your best shot on the day.
I’m a sprinter, I usually bank on winning, if it comes to a small bunch finish. However, if there’s anything I can do to reduce that group or better yet, win solo. I’ll take it in a heartbeat. Sprint wins from a bunch are mathematically bad, there are so many variables that can prevent you winning.
Very often at road races when you have a group finish, 1st and 24th are literally sometimes separated by only 3-5 seconds or so. For those races winning is mostly a function of positioning. If you are boxed into the field, you literally can’t make a move (at least not without endangering others).
I just read all 36 replies and agree with most of what’s been said. I’m a cat 3 55+ male racer, first year in this cat. Raced today in a hard course road race with the 1,2,3’s. Got my arse kicked and was dropped early on the main long hill. I finished out the race with a few other stragglers and solo much of the time. Point: I put out out maximum effort the entire ride. Out of 20 guys I probably finished 15th. I was third in a break of 5 on this same course two years ago as a cat 4 45+. I consider both races valuable experiences and accomplishments which serve to build because I left it all out there. Zero unspent energy after the race. The races I regret are the ones where I just sat in until the end and never tried something creative to win.
You tried something creative and left it all out there. You can build on that much more than just sitting in and waiting for the finishing sprint, with energy left over after the line. If I were you I’d count that 24th as a “race with merit” because you gave it your best shot.
Lots of great thoughts in this thread.
My $0.02 is that your early races are a wonderful opportunity to just put yourself out there and try things and the stakes aren’t high. Actually, let’s be honest - there are no stakes.
Attacking, covering attacks, going for Hail Marys, foxing on the climbs. Everything you try - whether it works or doesn’t work - is valuable data that’ll make you a stronger racer. Enjoy the process.
As above, going all in on a move is a great learning opportunity however it plays out!
I think one of the most important things to learn in racing is that there is very rarely a “right” or “wrong” move, it’s about playing the odds, and the more experience you gain and the more things you try, the better you get at figuring out the odds. You’ll notice on the podcast that when Amber is asked a question about tactics she nearly always starts her answer “it depends”. And that’s because context is everything. What your strengths and weaknesses are, who you’re racing against, what the course is like, what’s already happened in the race, etc.
Attacking 1km out against a large bunch on a fairly straightforward finish? Almost certainly doomed. You might pull it off if you’re a lot stronger than the rest of the field, but if that’s the case then you could probably win in a whole bunch of different ways and tactics are somewhat immaterial. You might get lucky and a crash happens which takes out the chasers, though you probably don’t want to win that way. Otherwise it’s almost certainly going to play out the way it played out this time - you get swamped and finish nowhere. If it’s an attack from a break or against a thinned out bunch at the end of an attritional race? Much better odds. Add in a technical finish e.g. a chicane where being able to pick your line outweighs the disadvantage of being in the wind, and the odds are better still. A tailwind would help. Conversely, a headwind tilts the odds against you.
So don’t second guess the attack, learn from it. Which if the same situation plays out again probably means trying something different. Attacking further out. Or doing more earlier in the race to try and split it and avoid having 20+ riders still together at the finish. Or sitting in and trying your hand at the bunch sprint. Which is not the same as “settling” for top 10 instead of trying to win - could be that your “decent kick” plus some good positioning and timing is enough to win bunch sprints. You won’t know until you try it!
Also worth pointing out that part of the learning is figuring out not just what the best odds moves are, but what you want to get out of a race. It’s all very well for people to say that going for the win makes you a better racer than settling for top 10. But if you find yourself in races where you don’t have any particularly good chances of a win, and constantly trying high risk moves to win ends up with a string of low placed results, that can be demoralising too. In which case being a bit more conservative and getting some solid top 10s under your belt can give you the confidence to build on. I did a race series a few years ago where I came to realise that my chances of winning were slim to none. Big, strong fields with teams who actually worked together. I tried a bunch of different tactics (including the 1km solo flier!) and none of them worked, I kept rolling in exhausted and outside the top 10. Bit of consolation from other riders telling me I’d made the race more fun or open by forcing splits or opening up counterattacking opportunities, but nothing to show for it. So eventually I had a race where I just sat in and saved matches for the bunch sprint, even though I’m not much of a sprinter. Relied on the teams to close down the breaks and for the strong riders to tire themselves out. All came together before the end and we were rolling into the finish still with >50 people in the bunch from a starting field of >100. Got myself on the wheel of a guy who I knew would be there or thereabouts at the end, finished 8th and beat some very good sprinters. Did anybody else care that I’d finished top 10? I doubt it! But I’m still 100% convinced that that was about the best result I was capable of getting against that field at that time, so I don’t regret taking that approach for a moment. I also learned that I can hold my own in a bunch sprint against some pretty decent sprinters when I give myself the best chance of doing so, which has helped me get some good results in other races against weaker fields. And I learned that if I’m going to do races against fields of that calibre then I’d prefer to do so as part of a strong team (I was on a team at the team but my team-mates had even worse odds of winning than me!) so that if I can’t win I can at least get some satisfaction from trying to help somebody else to.
