Pro/Elite training

I don’t want to do anything with his recovery time :man_shrugging:

I was curious as to why there was so much time between his threshold intervals. Someone up thread mentioned maybe it was because he did his interval up a climb and the long RI was going back to do it again.

Seems odd that it even lists a RI at all if they were doing the RI based on terrain. Also odd that the RI are 30min exactly, then the next day it’s 15min exactly. Those seem too specific to be terrain influenced RI, but I’m just guessing.

There’s significant research on RI that’s been presented by the TR Podcast and I’m not sure they’ve ever said do have a RI as long as 30min, maybe for max sprinting intervals but certainly not for Threshold.

I get a sinking feeling that “Pro’s” actually train quite significantly different than what we’ve been told. Sure volume, yada yada yada and then 2 no more than 3 hard sessions a week 3 weeks on then 1 off and all that crap we mindlessly spout?

I’m no longer buying it.

The thing is volume is key needs to be shouted from the roof tops. Volume, volume, volume. And the best way to get rad results from massive volume? Have elite parental genetic gifts.

I see more “grey zone” training than you can shake a mediocre fist at. I’m not seeing clearly defined intervals and sets with focused rest intervals and such.

Nothing is really as it seems. Plus, I’m too dumb in wanting to get specific directions to do the best thing for my cycling fitness.

So…rest intervals? IDGAF anymore. I think I’ll just go ride outside as the weather gets better and find something else to do all winter than analysis paralysis with the constantly shifting “training to make you faster” flapdoodle we’re always digesting.

“Follow the science”, well not that science.

Hey, did you see some Texa-orwegian guy retroactively looked at ELITE athletes training they did a bunch of years ago? Oh yeah? He looked at cyclists? No, skiers and rowers but it’s totally the same see because slow twitch endurance, blah-blah-blah. All you have to do is “ride easy” and then crush your eye’s out with hard intervals and suddenly you’re a Norwegian skier walking up a hill contemplating your navel (with a 90 VO2 number, lol).

How “easy”? How “hard”? And back into the balderdash we go.

Ugh.

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The video was put together by some marketing guys of his helmet sponsor. From the comment on SweetSpot it is apparent that they do not have the deepest knowledge of training. And this is reflected in the annotational text. They’ve just put something together to make it look good … w/o making necessarily sense. Hey, we all know our marketing guys :slight_smile:

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Absolutely. FWIW when eating food during my endurance rides, I usually drop power a bit. Because easy conversational pace is a recovery ride.

They should’ve asked him how he likes the ramp test. Missed opportunity. Ok, now I’m just being snide. Time to stop.

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Consistent volume.

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Who is the mysterious cyclist. Finn Fisher-Black fits the description of national champ and he tweeted about him two minutes before:

He also tweets a lot about McNulty.

Recovery Time is important part of interval design and depends always what the goal of the session is.

First of all to set it up properly you have to know where you are metabollicly otherwise you have no chance to define it in the right way.

Then you have to know where you want to go.

Pro or not doesn’t matter it depends on the capacity of your engines / energy systems & how much / good you use them. In general the way you should train can be perfectly extrapolated from pro’s to amateurs if you want to seperate it like this but also pro’s are not pro’s and amateurs are not amateurs, it’s all individual and this is where proper testing & setting up the right zones for each athlete gets important.

Easy example to make it more clear:

Let’s say your Goal is in this session today to improve your Sprint Power so you want to trigger your IIx Fibers and your anaerobic system ATP / CP and your “anaerobic glycolosis” to the fullest. You want to max out both enery systems by going ~20seconds fullgas. You are planning to do this 4 times.

How would you set up the recovery time & intensity between this sprints? Just by feeling you would probably not set it to 10 seconds at your Lactate Threshold or? Obviously this would be way too short & way too intense for the goal of the session, to recover from this effort, to recover the energy systems and to be able to hit it with full power again.

As a track sprinter you would maybe even stop cycling and wait for 20 minutes or the propriate time until you go again to get no aerobic training stimulus. Different story maybe when you are a sprinter for stage races for example. Or a maratona type of rider who wants to get a certain stimulus maybe in the preperation phase.

And of course as a sprinter you maybe don’t want to do 20 or more submax sprints cause this would probably even lower your “sprinting capacity”. Different story for a maratona.

And this you can translate to all other interval types, lengths, intensitys basically. You really have to know what you want to do and what is the individual profile of an athlete. Yes, it is very individual and it needs a very good understanding of the whole picture to do it properly. Are you a not very well endurance adepted rider or a sprinter who wants to become a maratona? Are you up for TTs or for race across america? and so on…

And of course then periodisation / load in micro macro, fueling, testing, setting training intensitys / zones right, monitoring, recovery and so on is also a necessery part of it.

In the case of Pogi, well if he does a 15’ interval at this intensitys it is not very far away probably of his power@vo2max so the glycolytic contribution is huge and he is triggering his glycolytic system as also his aerobic system very strong and for a pretty long time. This is a super tough effort for sure and to hit it again you really want to get rid of all the hydrogen ions / lactate accumulated in the muscle enviroment. And there would be absolutley no benefit to shorten the recovery time. The reason why he’s doing in one session a 30’ break and in the other one only a 15’ break is probably just determined by the exact intensity & duration of the z2 work he is doing in these sessions to fine tune the sessions a bit more. In the 15’ break variant the overall session length is shorter & therefore the z2 duration is shorter too but closer to the upper end of his zone which in his case is pretty close to his MLSS probably too. In both variants he probably “fully” recovers from the effort so it makes no difference on the glycolytic / high aerobic effort itself.

The more interesting question woulde be why choosing 15 minutes, why choosing this intensity for it. Why not going 8 minutes and therefore harder of course to end up where you probably want to be? The answer again is in your individual metabolic profile and where you want to go. A sprinter guy would probably not have the best time of his life if you prescribe him an interval session of 15 minutes this close to his power@vo2max, there are better ways to improve his “aerobic power” by choosing a different interval design (if improving his areobic power is the goal…) or even worse if you would base the intensity on his FTP. And there is always also the balance with the “low intensity” work & volume you do.

I would be very careful like you say too by just listening to this recommendations ala go very easy & on the other hand at “crush your eye’s out” intervals. it says nothing and you end up everywhere and nowhere.

Rather do it very right but then you have to know a lot or hire somebody who can help or otherwise i would recommend really to just go by feel, (learn to) listen to your sensations, do what you like, fuel properly, never go hard or long with depleted glycogen storages, always be a bit conservative with intensitys, train “a lot” but recover “more” and if you want it a bit structured don’t mix different intensitys too much, either long or either hard or either a little bit of both, whatever this means in your individual case.

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Finn last year was (officially only) u23TT national champ and is not top 30 ranked.
George won the road race but is coached by John not Jeroen, probably a stretch to say top 30 athlete and isnt ranked top 30.

I think it is national TT champion of Portugal Joao Almeida.

Victor Campenaerts has had a great start to the season, and looked to be one of the strongest in Opening Weekend. Do his power graphs show anything interesting or special?

This is why ISM has them do 15min intervals slightly above threshold :slight_smile:

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that was awesome to watch - made me want a big dose of what he had done last winter, and a side helping of his parents genes :rofl: :rofl:

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Someone on the comments actually brought attention to it and the OP admitted it was an error and they are looking into changing it.

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MvdP - this week so far

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TPPS podcast with Javier Gomez Noya.

Do you train polarised?

Well, for ITU hard days are hard but I don’t really go easy on my easy days. Others go easier, more polarised.

Now with a focus on Ironman TID is 70% base/zone 2of5 (not easy) and the rest above (w/o specifying how “above” looks like)

Been following Pauline Ferrand Prevot on instagram, she sometimes posts about her training. She seems to do at least some structured sessions, the way that seems familiar to people on here. Today’s session was 6x 15 minutes of over-unders within a 3-hour ride. From the emoji’s it seems even she found that hard!

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MvdP - today - there is structure!

grafik

are these fast start vo2max intervals?

first is 4min at 500W. Is this vo2max for him? HR up to 170max during this. His max HR appears to be 190. O.k. he may have scratched 90% HR. But what then. “Science” says he should maximize time at 90%. Ha, did not read the memo.

Or perhaps this is more threshold stuff. 4min above. And then at threshold and rest at lower tempo or upper zone2. It could be that after such a long break due to injury his threshold is at around 430W currently.

Or perhaps he simply does stuff without overthinking it. Easing into more intensity within a high volume training block.

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Agreed. Plus how can he compete in Flanders without doing a proper HSVO2 progression?

SMDH, season over.

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Looks more like race-specific work to me. Create a break, then do turns at threshold?

(But I agree with the “do stuff without overthinking it” thing too.)

I don’t know if this is in the tactical books of a MvdP: create a break and take turns. I think he only knows “I’m cold/hungry/bored and ride away. Solo”. Therefore, I don’t know if we would train “doing turns”. Not in his books.

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Haha yes, fair point!

Or perhaps introducing / transitioning to this type of block, in which case no reason to come right out of the gate with 90% and >18mins blah blah.

This is my favorite of the three possibilities but that is just because I think we amateurs overthink intensity and interval design. No reason to think that applies to MvdP and his coaches/DS, etc.

Fun to speculate though.

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