Yeah, you definitely need to find good routes for the kind of workouts you’re doing. If you want to do only lower endurance power, you’ll have to find some roads that don’t pitch up too steep. With the right gearing and dropping of cadence, you should be able to do that on most rolling courses. You just have to sacrifice the speed/momentum to maintain the power as a result.
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I was following a DIY polarized plan at the moment, but for the sake of data collection, i would like to use one of the training plans.
However, due to my schedule, i will not be able to do all the workouts on TrainerRoad. And because i dont have a powermeter on my bikes, only the trainer, i cant actually push the Z1 workouts to outside and “complete” them, eventhough i kind of am doing them. So in the plan, they will be marked as missed.
Is there still value in me starting the plan and doing only the Z3 workout and not doing the other workouts? Will it not mess up the data?
This is what i do (MTB / CX / Road depends on the time of year)
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: 2 hour @ Z1 MTB / road / CX training
Wednesday: Z3 workout from the plan on TrainerRoad
Tuesday: 2 hour @ Z1 MTB / road / CX training
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 1 hour run, Z3 or Z1 workout
Sunday: 3+ hour MTB/ road ride @ mostly Z1
Totals up about 9 -11 hours a week already.
Looking at the plans, i do “miss” the 30/15’s in there 
You could ride using hr and then click „estimate training stress” on the outside rides
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Thats what i do for the outside rides without power, estimate TSS
Generally I just try and find the flattest route possible and then really ease back on the climbs. A short climb at or slightly above LT1 isn’t going to make much difference in a long ride. 10m/km (roughly 50ft/mile) isn’t that hilly - sorry! It would be regarded as flat around here in northern England. Only been to upstate NY once, about 35 years ago, climbing at the Shawanagunks. Can’t remember how hilly the area’s roads were.
It seems that all intervals are at least 2 minutes long @120% (Yayamari for example). Is there a reason for the shorter intervals to be so long? Isn’t there anything to gain with shorter, harder intervals (30s/30s or 1min/1min @125% like Bashful)?
I’m not going to be doing the 3 or 4x16 @ >100% intervals. That’s just a recipe for failure for me personally.
Would it be better for TR’s AI that I still do a plan and change those workouts? Or would my not strictly following the plan be removed from the research and I might as well just stick to building my own plan?
What’s wrong with classic threshold intervals?
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I’ve been riding for a long time. I’ve never seen a workout with 4 sixteen minute intervals at greater than 100% before. I have a bad knee and there is absolutely no way I could do it. Just not possible. So I’m not debating the effectiveness, I’m asking what’s best for the TR research.
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@Nate_Pearson Great to see this initiative from TR.
To encourage people to try and adhere to these plans, I think it would be really useful if the team were able to communicate some whys i.e. what is the thinking and the evidence behind the structure and progressions e.g.
- Why do the plans move to 16min intervals rather than build in progressions around 4x8min, which at least 1 study suggested provided a better outcome?
- Why is the other VO2 Max workout based on 2min intervals with (relatively) long recovery periods as opposed to micro-intervals such as 30/15 that can keep the HR higher for longer and some studies have shown to be more effective than sustained intervals?
- What are the specific adaptations gained from individual long Z1 rides that you don’t get from splitting that time over multiple shorter workouts during the week? Is there any actual scientific evidence to back that up?
Totally appreciate there are many unknowns, the evidence is thin on the ground and you have to start with something but having an idea of the thinking and evidence behind the plans may help curious folk engage with them more.
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Said this on the basis of what TR podcast’s deep dive into the literature specifically stated. I agree you could say certain methodologies of training are polarized and those find their origins in many different disciplines farther back. However, the notion of polarized training wasn’t really developed until Selier’s observations of the data in his research.
Selier very clearly states that he simply sums up what coaches have been doing for decades its just that the research catches up with it. Thats normal.
Remember that ATA might kick in and not offer that workout for you. On the face of it it does seem very hard it is probably manageable, just not very pleasant.
Or you can do 3 * 16 or 4 * 10 and update the notes to explain why. That will assist the ML.
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Which is exactly why TR has not had these before… Compliance is important for fitness gains and creating a platform and plan the makes people want to stick to it is key to their success. Clearly broad strokes for these things but polarized is hard because going easy isn’t super fun all the time, not chasing down that cyclist up the road or putting in a dig on the hills, instead just holding steady but then having conversely using the freshness to go deep on the hard workout days.
I saw this comment and just thought, of course. This forum was screaming in hysterics over the idea of polarized plans because of that facepalm clickbait youtube video. Now people have them and are realizing it means 3 hours of easy spinning on the trainer.
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Normally a plan goes through the phases: Base + Base + Build + Specialty
The 6 week plan is indicated as “Base”, which can be repeated 2 times according the description.
The 8 week plan is indicated as “Build”
I guess i still just have to start with the Base and not “skip” to build?
Additionally, doing 5 weeks of work, will not work for me, due to a lot of extra (mostly Z1) work i’ll “have to” be doing.
So i think this is a good modification for the plan?
Similar to what TrainerRoad recommended for other plans.
Week 1 do week 1 of the plan: work
Week 2 do week 2 of the plan: work
Week 3 do week 3 of the plan: work
Week 4 do week 6 of the plan: recovery
Week 5 do week 3 of the plan: work
Week 6 do week 4 of the plan: work
Week 7 do week 5 of the plan: work
Week 8 do week 6 of the plan: recovery
The first study on “polarized” training was in 2004. When I started my coaching education for triathlon back in 2005, Friel used the adage of keeping easy days easy so the hard days can be really hard. What’s that sound like to you?
All that to say, polarized training isn’t new at all - the coined term “polarized” is ‘newer’. Ultra distance athletes have been training “polarized” forever. The key limitation for most of us is time.
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You sure told me.
Good point, but I get the feeling that is many months, if not years, away.
I like using Fulgaz to ride to and I see POL as a real opportunity to do some of the great rides but at a steady pace. Or ride outside. Today I did a 3 hour ride outside 68% AHR 69% FTP. Bang in the mid zone of Seiler Z1. 134 TSS or 0.68 IF.
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I do the same thing. I love doing Trainerroad sessions and having FulGaz on at the same time
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