LOL. I had heard some comments about them possibly adding a subscription service, but I didn’t believe it because I chose Oura because they weren’t Whoop. Given this Gen 3 and this subscription, it seems like they are trying to double dip with hardware costs and subscription fees. Both their hardware and software have been too unreliable for me to buy into this subscription. I only have the Gen 2, and probably will stay that way, so hopefully they won’t be taking away any features I use now without a subscription.
4 Likes
I’m on 2 of their FB forums - Science and general Users. Their user base is non-athletes: those into general health and/or fitness, but not athletes. Even with their projected 2022 features, I don’t see them having much, if any, impact on HRV4training business.
As for Gen 2 users, for those that upgrade to the 3, the subscription service is free for the lifetime you own the 3. And given the improved and new sensors and algorithms, I would expect that reliability may improve as well.
I posted a thread in the FB Oura Science group a few days ago about user experience of integration of the Oura with HRV4training. Some good responses. You may want to take a look.
correct, nothing changes in the integration.
2 Likes
Oura ring user here. I can basically confirm all the comments above. The only thing that i think it does not do well is activity tracker. for rides it regularly downplays the intensity, but really its a sleep tracker but you think it could at least track HR a little better during the day.
On battery usage mine last 4 days between charges at the most. I had one that finally had a failed battery issue and oura was really good about warranty (even though i bought it second hand).
i’m sold an no way i’d pay whoop their monthly…total joke.
For those that are able to sync with strava/tr via google fit does it help in fitness/freshness or anything or is it just nice to have it in one place?
1 Like
It’s only free for 6 months.
According to FB posts from existing Oura 2 users who upgrade, it’s free for lifetime (that you own a 3).
I’m planning to buy the 3 and am not currently an Oura user so I will be subject to the membership. I think it will be worth it, particularly after they upgrade their sleep algorithms.
2 Likes
ah, I see what you mean. I didn’t see anything related to existing ring users, so may check that out. However, their web site is predictably crashing right now because unfortunately for them, their software development is pretty poor.
Yeh, they are a very science oriented company - I’m impressed by their technology backed up by some great research. But business isn’t their forte. So your comment about their website crashing is consistent with others, particularly those that are trying to order now :).
Forget if I have posted this year, but as someone using both a Whoop (3) and Oura (2) I find they have different strengths and weaknesses.
For me, the Oura doesn’t do enough to take my activity level into account, and is constantly telling me to rest. Their general readiness algorithm does not account for athletes in a satisfactory way (for me anyway). It hasn’t adapted to my level of exercise to base my readiness level on my history, and pretty much always thinks I’m overdoing it.
Whoop is more athlete focused, and thus its readiness equivalent works better for me. However, the lack of integration and pure reliance on the Whoop HR data is problematic for me. I haven’t had the severe accuracy problems others have had, but I do see intermittent small problems.
For me, the best of both worlds would be Whoop’s algorithm with Oura’s integration with outside services. If I could get the HR data for workouts from Strava into Whoop that’d be my ideal solution.
Hoping to hear that Oura updates their algorithm to more accurately account for personal workout volume and history, in which case I’d gladly upgrade there and let the Whoop drop
3 Likes
just curious, has either delivered noticeable improvements versus your judgement on training readiness? The word ‘readiness’ is not the most precise definition, and I believe you know what I mean.
All of your comments are consistent with FB Science user group. Oura’s readiness is completely irrelevant for athletes as it knows nothing about training principals, particularly overload. This is discussed quite well in the 18 page FAQ that is required reading to join the group. As for daily activity tracking, similar, it’s primarily a night time device (although many users wear it 24 hours like a piece of jewelry). However, it will be interesting to see how the daytime activity tracking evolves (see announcement).
The Oura readiness has not aligned tightly with my performance or my own perception. There are times it is close and confirms
There have been a handful of times (three I can clearly remember) where the Whoop told me to rest and I felt fine, and when I started working out I knew I had to dial it back. Usually it confirms what I’m already feeling. That said - those three stand out in my mind very clearly as awful days on the bike where I felt fine before I started and felt I had a good night’s rest
Both have helped me with my sleep quality - although I’m not sure if its because of anything specific they do. I track my sleep, and the sleep scores I get from both seem to align with quality and time in bed - so I can play the game with myself of aiming for a high score, which makes me prioritize sleep.
Neither (and frankly any device on the market I’m aware of) tracks sleep phases accurately but they are consistent with themselves. There’s really nothing I’ve found to impact those
Agree, but I wouldn’t count on it. They are already getting good activity tracking from exercise integrations and not using it - so if they haven’t prioritized using that I’m not sure it’ll be any better now. Hopefully I’m wrong!
1 Like
Yeh, readiness is discussed in the FAQ as well. It’s useful for non-athletes as a catch-all indicator. However, it is useless for athletes, both because it is wrong (e.g. doesn’t know anything about response to workload) and athletes need lots of raw data (e.g. HR, HRV, CTL, TSB, etc) to assess readiness. That is why they did the integration deal with HRV4training as one element to help athletes (discussed in FAQ as well)
The gold standard for tracking sleep is a polysonogram. It tracks your brain waves (EEG), heart rate (ECG), blood oxygen (SpO2), and breathing. As someone who has sleep apnea, I have gone through this overnight testing process 2x (not fun).
So all wearable devices on the market are using other sensors and their own algorithms to approximate sleep time in each of the cycles. I read Oura’s science submission on the topic, and they claim overall 96% accuracy against polysonogram, although you have to take this with a grain of salt when you read some user feedback. The new Oura 3 will include an SpO2 detector, 7 temp sensors and [in 2022] improved sleeping algorithms so it should improve.
Yes, right now it won’t adjust to your level of exercise. As scientists and not athletes as @bobmac says, they seem to have these pretty rigid fundamentals. Like everyone needs at least one day of in seven. If you work out 6 straight days and then on the seventh day you exceed 21 minutes of “high” intensity activity, your “recovery time” sub-score will plummet to 1 which tanks your activity score and will also tank your readiness score. Since the end of september update with nap detection, the “previous day activity” and “activity balance” calculations have been broken. I have a ticket open with them with no updates in a few weeks. I’m not gonna take it off yet, but I’ve been their QA department on several major issues related to score calculations, including a MAJOR one that is ongoing with sleep score where I showed them just by cropping off a minute of awake time at the beginning of my sleep I can make the score jump from mid-seventies, to mid-nineties, and back.
I like looking at resting heart rate, heart rate variability, and restlessness. I don’t have a ton of faith in the REM and deep tracking, but do look at them also. The rest I can’t use at the moment.
My understanding is that without the brain wave sensors its all guesswork, although I am not a researcher so…who knows
1 Like
I feel like this can’t be highlighted enough for anyone considering buying one. If you’re a serious athlete please read the above over and over again
3 Likes
I’ve repeatedly tried using HRV4Training and it didn’t add any value to training readiness. On the other hand, on the few occasions in the last year where I started riding and quickly realized something was terribly wrong, it was reflected in the Garmin Performance Condition (which uses HRV). My HRV is relative low for the general population, although Marco Altini published some data by age groups and its on the low end of normal for my age. As a result of some changes to training and ‘life’, my HRV values have almost doubled (looking like normal values for general population) so perhaps its time to try again.
@bobmac thanks for the summary. I’ll keep doing the morning HRV readings on my Apple Watch and see if recent improvements to my HRV have any correlation to training.
1 Like
Thanks for the HRV info. I am planning on buying the 3 for its sleep data and am particularly looking forward when they incorporate SpO2 and temp into their updated sleep algorithms. I don’t wear anything on my wrist so I was planning on integrating the 3 with HRV4training, but your comment [as a fellow athlete] provides me pause. I’ll be interested if you decide to resubscribe to it now that you have addressed your low HRV situation and compare it to your readings from your Apple Watch.
1 Like
wow did not know that they were going to charge a monthly. (you guys are way more informed than me and i should opt out of this thread as i can’t contribute anything but personal experience… thanks for my reading my slur, but i am on my second oura and have been using it for over 2 years now so maybe that counts) I can appreciate it from a business standpoint why they need to charge but i still think that the technology is not accurate enough to justify it. Its accuracy is not there and feel like its a big unknown whether that data is really valid (certainly the activity tracking is not there yet). Even the sleep tracking i really question. I had a really bad nights sleep the other night (tracked the 2-3am TV watching binge and even restfulness) and it still called my sleep “optimal” and mistracked the sleep stages by a lot. …i’d be pissed if i were paying a monthly on this.
I disagree that they should try to adjust to a level of fitness. If it tried to adjust to your level of fitness i could see it being wildly off and would not really want them to attempt unless they worked with a really good activity data provider like strava, TR or TP (and even these guys don’t nail it)
I don’t really look at their sleep scores and really just look at HR, HRV and the sleep stage times.
1 Like