Having never tried steering (using an iPhone?** Really?) I thought that more realism would be beneficial, ie: moving physical bars like on a real bike. I always wanted to try the sterzo unit, but I guess it’s out now.
But using ‘paddles’ on the end of the shifters to steer? It just doesn’t seem appealing to me. I did buy the Play controller set, and then found out they don’t fit the Neo Smart Bike. sigh So I have them if I swap bikes or use one of my bikes on a trainer.
Tangent: I always wondered why Shimano/SRAM didn’t license/develop a ‘cockpit system’ that they could sell/license to manufacturers. Seems ‘out there’, but I’d LOVE a much more realistic setup than the gen 1 Neo Smart. But then it’s such a niche market, the profit likely wouldn’t be in it at all so I’m sure they would rather sue copycats.
** I did try it once, with an iPhone. DOH… See my next post.
I get it now. But just turning the bars and not a front wheel (would be another place for the system to fail) would be interesting. It would have to turn slower, like IRL.
Yeah, I tried ‘repack ridge’ with my iPhone, and at times it just ignored me. It was like if the bike was being controlled by someone else. I finally got stuck and gave up. Waste of time… That’s what has kept me thinking of ‘a better way’. Since the ‘Ride’ is missing a front wheel, turning the bars on a tube hooked to potentiometer(s) would be more immersive/realistic (I hear that’s the word for Apple’s new Vision Pro: ‘Immersive’. I do like watching movies on them. Not sure ‘immersive’ is what I’d use as an adjective, but they do pull off a 3-D look rather well. I’m a little embarrassed to say I have them to watch movies but still searching for ;the killer app’. (Art Universe is an interesting app, if it didn’t blowup so often))
I seem to rememmber Zwift using the accelerometer in the phone , Wahoo definatly did it with RGT
But it’s not realistic, as when you steer a bike, most of the steering comes from leaning the bike, not turning the handlebars, turning the bars and not leaning, is very unreadlistic, and feels clumsy, try it on a real bike … you’ll fall off, it’s why you see trike racers doing this when going round a corner
It’s because if stayed upright and turned left, their weight would be fired right, so they have to lean into the turn (same direction as they are turning) to counter the weight shift, most of the steeting come from leaning, the more speed, the more inertia, so the less you actually turn the bars
And thats why people who tried the Sterzo found it clumsy and unnatural
The play controller works mainly because it’s not steering you are actually after, more moving your position left or right within the pack/direction you are going, more left, right or middle of the road (it’s a higher resolution than that, but show the point) not steering left and right off the road like in a racing sim
I I’m not a steering advocate or anything, I don’t use it on my Play’s (which are great for other reasons) but if i had to use steering as it currently stands within cycling apps, it would Zwift Play, and if i had to get the Sterzo out of the bottom of the draw, i’d rather change apps
Using the Play controllers going through the Intestines on the France map in Zwift is a big advantage…you move to the inside before the turn and the you end up taking a shorter route than non-Play riders. I can usually pick up a few seconds quite easily without having to put out any extra effort.
And encumbers you a 30-second time penalty whilst you check over your bike & wounds, then a 20% power penalty for the rest of the race because being wounded increases RPE. Make it a proper simulation.
And when they enabled ‘steering’ on the Wahoo Kick Bike, it was pretty amazing. I did a test, just riding the normal way, and then riding ‘steering’, and I was able to squeak people on corners and beat them to the hole shot. Seriously! I was surprised, at the same apparently power output, I was able to squeak by other riders! Pretty amazing…
Oh, and when they enabled the brakes on the Kickr. THAT was pretty cool. (I’m so easily impressed )
And never having used it, but heard so much about it, I still had FOMO. (Especially after finally ditching the Kickr Bike mess, and finding that the Play gizmos didn’t fit the Neo Smart) Personally, I don’t think that the orange paddles on the front edge of the Play’s is very elegant, but like the Sterzo, it’s what we have? What did KurtKinetic call their leaning trainer? (They apparently don’t sell it anymore) If that had been more forward thinking, could it have been instrumented enough to revolutionize indoor training?
It’s funny that I seem to come off as a purist. We all should be riding outside everyday, but with it being over 100 today, and already over 80 and it’s not 9am yet, and the number of car/bike ‘accidents’, and human/bike ‘encounters’ on the rise, it’s dangerous out there. But the clumsy shifters, clumsy controls, all distract from the ‘immersive’ potential…
Whatever…
On my ‘stupid old man’ quip, I was told that someone said that about me at a local bike club ride. I exclaimed that I’m not THAT old… If you can’t laugh…
I wish I had better shifters. I wish I had better ‘steering’. I wish I was younger. I wish things were better I have ‘hope’…
Thats not what I was saying, I was pointing out why Just steering through the handlebars felt unnatural, and I did make the point that the higher inertia the less you used steering , so therefore, bikes would need to have movable handlebars …
I didn’t say it was inefficient, I said, was saying that it could be more immersive. I loath the shifters on my Neo Smart. They are so ‘bizarre’, TO ME, that they are a jarring part of the experience. But inefficient? Me trying to train, outdoors, for climbing is inefficient. There are no hills near where I live unless I pack it all up and drive about an hour away.
I didn’t mean to say it was inefficient, it’s not ‘immersive’.
There was an argument over leaning while cornering with a group of riders, some noobs. They insisted that leaning had nothing to do with turning, and yet when I showed them a motorcycle cornering and leaning, they excused it as being ‘just a motorcycle thing’.
I think most (some) riders don’t realize they DO lean when turning. It’s physics…
Just like I have done with my E-Flex Motion System. It has integrated Lean & “Steer” control for the main rocking action. I did a hack where I stripped down an Elite Sterzo, then reassembled it into a system with Technic Legos to be an active “lean to steer” control within Zwift.
The E-Flex front has a lean system with one fixed and one pivoting section. I have a connecting link from one to the other, that “turns” the Sterzo angle indicator that activates the “steering / lane control” in Zwift. Took a while to dial in the leverage ratio, but it works pretty well.
I still need to shoot a video someday, but it works reasonably similar to lane changes outside, including the basic “countersteer” input at the handle bar in conjunction with the lean.
That is GENIUS!!! Wow!! I love doing Lego’s and that is amazing! Have you done a build guide for others to pull that off too?
I sure wish the Neo Smart had more ‘motion’. It’s a solid monolithic ‘thing’ that could have more motion (without having to spend big money to pull off) I’d be afraid of it all falling off a motion plate. I fell hard off rollers, and sold them that week. Almost needed to see a physician, HUGE bruise, but no major drywall damage…
HA, thanks! I was a Lego kid for a looong time and still have all the stuff I got up thru high school.
I have not done a guide since I figured it was well at the fringe of what people might do. They have to have an E-Flex and Sterzo Smart, so not sure how large that population is? It’s definitely something I can do though. I considered doing a proper CAD design and 3D printing a clean solution and would do that if there was enough interest.
I do also have a basic concept on doing this for a regular lean rocker plate too. Just a matter of having a “fixed” base section tied to the rocker deck to register the lean. I even considered doing one with a weighted pendulum for the “vertical” component. Would just suffer from a bit of swing if the mass and lever length weren’t done well, but it’s very possible and would simplify installation to be a top mount on the deck. Plenty of hours wasted on this concept without much follow through, per usual
Crap deal on the roller fall! Those can sure come out bad at times. Even short of a full rocker, you can use foam blocks and some simple DIY options for your Neo Smart Bike if you want to get at least some movement vs fully rigid. I have some foam I could ship if you are in the US, for a quick start. And I’m happy to head into DM for design help if you want more than blocks for action.
Something like a Hall Effect sensor would be interesting to use for a ‘steering’ sensor on a motion platform. But Hall Effect sensors do introduce more complexity and another point of failure. Hmm… But so many devices use them.
Hiding on the other side of the PCB is the magnetic screw assembly that rotates, with the sensor on the PCB to detect rotation. I just housed that in the larger LEGO gear.
I would be possible to keep this basic envelop if you did a gravity based lever, for a simple top mount.
The big problem with hall effect sensors is they are sensitive to heat, and tend to drift with age. That’s a huge problem for full-time gamers with some (computer) game controllers being notorious for having drifting and just flat out unreliable sensors. I got an email offering ‘drift-less’ sensors. I’m happy they thought of me, but I don’t ‘game’, other than Zwift. (I was a beta tester for Diablo III. That was fun)
I wonder if that is why so many people don’t like the Sterzo? (Is it still available?)
)
I have ‘hope’…
