Thanks for the heads up on this! I’ll send this info to the AI FTP Detection team so they can look into what might be happening here.
How could it possibly predict this with any accuracy? I mean - sure, you do a 16 or 20 minute threshold interval for over 110% and if you use the 20 minute test, then your ftp is up. But - prior to completing a plan it would just be a guestimate. If it was that easy then you can just scroll through and pick a plan that provides you with XX watts predicted. I mean, maybe it’s a 2 watt bump predicted - that would be pretty demoralizing IMO. Somethings are just better left unknown if you ask me.
I sent in a support ticket with the same info. Apologies for any duplication.
As they say. A person is special, people are not. Meaning that even though a single persons experience won’t tell you much, when you average out over a large enough sample size you will get usefull trends. I believe the thought for TR is that given the size of their dataset they will have had enough instances of a backround and plan for a given person to give them an estimation with a usefull degree of certainty.
I wish to run AI FTP Detection near the end of my Speciality phase, just prior to my “event” (multi-week trip commencing), a point I’m almost at…
Does the above quote simply mean that TR won’t automatically run AI FTP in Speciality, but I remain free to press the AI FTP Detection button within my profile, and it’ll work as normal? Or does it mean something else?
Why don’t you try it and see? I can’t answer with confidence - but the way I interpret his quote is that it doesn’t run automatically but you can run it yourself (assuming you meet the timing gap requirements, etc.)
Only one press of the button per 28 days! I don’t want to squander it if it doesn’t do what I want it to do.
@AldridgePrior That’s correct! It won’t run automatically, but you can still press the AI FTP Detection button manually and it will work normally.
@koalb I saw your question got answered in your ticket you had open with TR Support, but I wanted to answer here as well for anyone else interested:
It seems like you had a Ramp Test pop up in your plan because Ramp Tests were set as your default fitness assessment.
To change your default fitness assessment choice from the Ramp Test to AI FTP Detection, follow the instructions laid out here. That will make sure your TR Calendar updates according to the newer flow used by AI FTP Detection.
Having a Ramp Test pop up a week out from your A event is still a bit odd/clunky, so I’ll make sure to report it to the team all the same so we can clean that functionality up.
As for your rides without power:
AI FTP Detection uses a lot of data in addition to power, but power is still the most important metric it uses. The more power data you feed AI FTP Detection, the more accurate it will be.
Does the AI FTP detection take into account running/swimming volume? I am a triathlete and cycle 3-4 times a week (mostly z2 with 1 hard workout a week) but I also run 4-5 times a week and swim a couple of times a week. I would assume there will be some crossover to my cycling (At least in terms of aerobic gains). Is it totally ignored with these FTP detections?
- No, it considers only cycling rides and workouts.
Interesting question for TR, though. I think I understand why majority of non-cycling workouts can’t be used for PL and/or FTP changes detection but what about VO2max with its central adaptations?
Or differently put: I do not expect TR to analyze VO2max workouts. But does it provide any value to schedule VO2max workouts from TR library (with specific interval count, durations and recovery periods), complete it in different sport and then simply mark it as done as outdoors activity?
Seems more likely to cause issues than solve them. Stuff like VO2 max is often sport dependent due to muscle engagement. Mixing non-bike stuff into the bike related TR side is not something I see as helping in a way I think you want.
I asked a few weeks ago if outdoor rides were used for an individual’s AI FTP detection. I asked because I remember reading differently in a post (below)
Well I found the post and I wonder if it has been updated since to include outdoor rides? Maybe I’m just beating a dead horse at this point but I knew I read (below) it and wanted to make sure I wasn’t imagining things
Outside rides have been included (per the info AND requirements below) for a looong time. I don’t have a precise date without some extensive searching, but this has been the case for quite a while.
- Including outside workouts and such has always been part of it IIRC. That 10 inside TR workouts requirement is what got flipped on/off a time or two, as they worked through some edge case issues with odd AIFTPD results.
In order for AI FTP Detection to have enough data to accurately detect your FTP, you need a minimum of 10 completed TrainerRoad indoor workouts. If you haven’t completed enough workouts, don’t stress—you’ll see how many more you need when you click the button to use the feature. Once you’ve completed these 10 workouts, AI FTP Detection will analyze and incorporate all indoor and outdoor rides with power data, whether or not they’re TrainerRoad workouts.
I have done AI twice so far. The first time (this was in February this year, after about 6 weeks of sticking to the plan) it indicated a value of 360 watts - at the time I had a setting of 350 watts. Immediately after that I did the Ramp Test, where I got to 390 watts. PL I had lower than it is now. The second time, AI added just 6 watts (396) also with a lower PL.
I’m curious about the current result as to what it will show - I don’t want to do the Ramp Test until the end of September.
Well - I need to do Ramp Test
I had a similar experience a couple months ago with AI FTP detection. I did polarized build HV (plus extra z2 volume) and AI FTP suggested 312 → 320. I followed up with a ramp test and got 340.
Hey there! I just took a look into your account to see what might be going on in your case.
It looks like the issue probably stems from the fact that you set your FTP to 350 watts manually when you first joined TR in January. If you hadn’t done an FTP test recently before that point, your FTP was likely set too low – and I think this is reflected by your Ramp Test in February when you smashed it out and got your FTP of 390 watts.
AI FTP Detection is only as accurate as the data you feed it, so it’s important to make sure the FTP you initially input when you first begin using TR is as accurate as possible. If you don’t have an accurate idea of what your FTP might be, then it would be a better idea to do a Ramp Test (or other FTP assessment, such as the 20 Minute Test) right from the start.
Your FTP value from your Ramp Test in February was probably closer to what your FTP actually was in January, but because you had manually entered it in as 350 watts (and had then completed all of your workouts based on that 350 watt FTP), AI FTP Detection simply didn’t have the correct data it needed to give you a more accurate detection.
Once you did your Ramp Test in February, you gave AI FTP Detection more accurate data, which it was then able to use in tandem with Adaptive Training to get you locked into more appropriate workouts for you.
Your FTP bump of 4 watts is still awesome progress – especially considering that your FTP is nearly 400 watts!!! In general, the higher your threshold is, the more difficult it becomes to raise it further.
My FTP isn’t nearly as high as yours, but I’d still be super happy to increase mine by 4 watts!!
Regarding your Progression Levels: they are supposed to decrease if your FTP increases. By reducing your Progression Levels (and in turn, upcoming Workout Levels), we can offset the sudden increase in workout difficulty traditionally associated with FTP increases. As a result, we can more accurately serve you the right workouts for your current capabilities to keep your training on track and ramp up the difficulty of your workouts at a sustainable rate.
Hope this info is helpful! If you do happen to do another Ramp Test, let us know how it compares to your most recent AI FTP Detection!
I started a plan, detected a low FTP and then life, and a minor car crash, happened and it’s been a month since I did a TR workout. I deleted my plan and did a TR workout at lunchtime - it offered to detect my FTP.
Is this just because time has passed since my last detection, or is it something in the workout today, or the power measured big outdoor ride I did a few weeks ago that has triggered this?
Would the TR be population be faster on average if the coding for FTP reduction kicked in if you were unsuccessful at anything below a level 4? 5?
@JoeX It offered to detect your AI FTP after your first workout back because 28 days had passed since your last AI FTP Detection. The feature is meant to offer/predict your AI FTP every 28 days, but it’s up to you if you want to accept it or not. In other words, it’s just because time has passed since your last detection.
@Neuromancer We currently have the FTP reduction set to kick in below Level 2 because there is no room for Progression Levels to fine-tune your workouts to be easier if you’re struggling with workouts at Level 2 or below. When you’re at a Level 4/5 workout, PLs can make the adjustment downward in the specific zone you’re struggling with rather than making the more wide-reaching change of adjusting FTP, which would affect all workouts across all power zones. Our data supports this current implementation, which helps athletes get back on track and locked in with appropriately challenging workouts more quickly than before.