@Junk_Miles Im just calling you guys out on blanket statements saying you only need 6-8 interval sessions. Then you tell me I need to progressive overload, which ends up being a lot more than 6-8 interval sessions.
That’s 4 different interval session within 1 “energy system”. So you agree you need more than 8 interval sessions. I also believe the TR library is massive, and there’s a lot of fluff, but I just don’t like when people are trying to say you only need X amount ever, which isn’t true.
Sorry, but I have to call BS. With an FTP of 300W, the steps between would be 3W. I don’t even know if pros can tell the difference between 3W. Even on erg mode you’re oscillating more than 3W.
If I had you hop on the bike with no metrics, and gave you 10 intervals of 5min, and I was controlling the target while you just rode, I am willing to wager a lot of money you wouldn’t guess the correct percentage of even half the intervals.
Yes, that is understandable. TR caters to their crowd. It is the essense of their business to keep things interesting, and to make things as easily digestible as possible. There is no obvious* problem with varying intensity during an interval block. I sometimes do it myself to not get bored indoors. On some days efforts at steady power is no problem. It depends on the mood. But, there is no real gain in varying power up and down 4% or whatever in a SS effort. It is only there to keep people distracted. Same with the Ai FTP detecton. It is there because most people do not want to test. Testing hurts. They want something easily digestible. TR gives you that. The only thing you have to do yourself is the actual cycling. TR is perfect if you do not want, or have the time, to think. Nero might call that category of riders beginner, but that is not really fair. They might not be knowledgable enough to train on their own. In that case it is fair to call them beginner. People can do something for their entire life but stay at beginner level if they have no ambition, means or will to learn. Then there are those people that just dont have the time to think, and want to train. Those who has the time and ambition can use TR if they like to do so, but they don’t need it, and would probably be better off without it.
*The reason people should stick to the same workouts is to learn to know their own body and track progress. It is also super helpful to avoid overtraining. If you do all sorts of random variations it is not so easy to compare. Mixing in a few staple workouts that you do regularly into the TR stuff could be enough.
rule of thumb: if you can’t remember the details of a workout you’re doing, it’s not a workout worth doing
And you’re just being a “well actually…” guy and seemingly arguing semantics for no other reason than to argue. I stand by my statement. My listed workouts for SweetSpot is 1 interval session: SweetSpot.
Well actually, ok 
i’m glad we settled it.
I was quite specific in what I claimed I think I can do: on my setup I can tell you which of two subsequent intervals was easier. I’m not claiming I can tell you power within 2 W just by feel. I just wrote I can hit average power targets of longer intervals within that margin. And tell which of two subsequent intervals was harder.
I am not claiming I can do the same on erg mode on a different bike with a different setup and different gearing. You’d eventually just remove all points of reference I’d use for pacing.
My FTP is above 300 W. So 2 % would be 6-7 W not 3 W. That’s definitely noticeable at sweet spot and especially threshold.
Have a look at great TTers, e. g. pros attempting the hour record. They can pace themselves so well within < 0.5 s per lap and only require the splits once a lap to stay on target. If anything they are in a different league compared to me.
What about losing count? I’m not being facetious, in my oxygen-depraved state I regularly lose count when doing 30-30s at 130+ % intensity. For that alone a workout player is useful.
Also some workouts in the specialty phase can be more complicated (hard starts, etc.).
Overall, I just wouldn’t make simplistic statements like that.
And I still say that without the metrics showing, anybody here would be hard pressed to tell the difference. But hey, maybe I should be more in tune with my legs and be able to tell a 4W difference.
This was my point. I think most of it s mental. It feels easier because the app tells you it should be easier.
But since this debate is going nowhere, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
sure, for something like 30-30s it’s fair to keep track, but I’m also acutely aware of how many intervals I need to suffer through and am always mentally counting down. so I stand by my statement, as do some other coaches I know and respect.
This would be a fun calculation. 0.5 sec on a 400m track. How many watts would that be? Doubt you could accurately calculate it. Say 5W increase but you sit up slightly, giving the same lap time. Does 5W at Ganna’s power translate to 0.5 sec? I’m curious.
Edit: I think you could probably calculate it for a give cda. Like every watt equals this much time per lap. But that’s for somebody smarter than me (or who has more free time).
You mentioned coaches, which to me means you’d likely be training outdoors more. In my experience, outdoor workouts need to be simpler or structured differently. E. g. you might do hill climb reps rather than VO2max intervals. Also, there are things like traffic and other hazards. You can’t stare at your stem to keep your power on target. Plus there is wind and such. That’s why power targets should be broader ranges outdoors rather than numbers.
A second point is that if coaches all have their own workout library (on, say, TP, it is not feasible that their library has the same breadth as TR. If you prescribe power ranges, you also don’t need as many workouts.
But indoors with an automated selection tool, this breadth becomes useful.
I thought one lap = 250 m.
As far as I understand track cyclists don’t pace by power, but by cadence. (Anyone with track experience please correct me if I am wrong.) So the computation isn’t that hard. Cadence is proportional to speed. At 50 km/h it takes you 18 seconds to complete a lap. If it takes you 18.5 seconds instead, your cadence would be 2.7-2.8 % lower. That’s 2-3 rpm difference if your cadence lies in the 80-110 rpm range.
wrong! lol even in the summer i had many weeks where i only trained inside
adding: i get you really like TR and it works for you, super. I used TR for years and enjoyed it too, but in the past year I moved beyond doing TR plans, eventually stopped doing TR workouts and erg mode, and in the end dropped the product completely as it was extraneous to me. my approach has become more simple and I’ve improved my power curve entirely after become stagnant using TR
So you just listed 10 variations of what you said was one workout……now multiply that by the other 7 “workouts” listed.
Now, what if I want to do a 2 hour workout instead of 1 hour? How many variations are we up to now?
Still 6-8 workouts. That’s the beauty of it.
Maybe I’m thinking of track and field. To be honest I’m not too familiar with track cycling. And the cadence thing makes sense because they’re on fixed gear bikes. Does power get affected by a fixed gear?
I’m sorry but this just doesn’t make sense…… 4x10, 3x15, 4x12, 5x10, 6x10 in SS are all different workouts. Yes they target the same “zone”, but they are different workouts.
I’m not certain how anyone could claim at a 4x10 SS workout is the same as 6x10 SS workout. Or that a 1 hour SS workout (whatever the configuration) is the same as a 90 min SS workout.
Open up TR and search how many 2x20s at sweet spot there are…short answer 16
That’s the point being made here. Interval lengths or TiZ are different things.
Didn’t think it was so hard to understand.