My Polarized Training Experience (Chad McNeese & others)

Training
383

I’m throwing my hat (and spring season) into the ring.

I’ve always been afraid of too many weeks of zone 5 intervals, and the possibility of stagnation and an early peak. To give this a try, I’ll have to find the right minimal amount of time in zone 5 per week to stimulate adaptation, but not so much to lead to plateau and burnout after more than 6-8 weeks.

@syrke noted that XC ski races are under 2 hours (or so), and defined by a few punchy efforts on hills, which also describes the races I’ll do from Feb-May. Time trialing and TTE have always been my strong points, so I’ll see how much of that I retain.

No complicated structure here. Just two interval days each week, and a lot of days of 110-120min rides at -10 beats below LT1 (my LT1 is 123bpm – 2 hrs at a 250w avg gives me an avg hr of 113, and about 105 TSS). An easy day of 75-80min, 1000kj when I feel like I need it.

See you in 16 weeks…

384

So been following the polarized approach for a bit and curious others approach to this. Over the past few weeks I have continued to stretch out my long rides on the trainer on the weekends from 1.5 to now 3 this past weekend. Over the past 3 weeks I have been able to keep my HR in the low intensity range for me ~130BPM and my average power numbers have continued to rise as I am now at +15W avg for 3hrs this weekend and able to control my HR the entire time. So do I continue to stretch out this time to longer durations than 3hrs or maybe use the 3hr ride as a platform to try and continue to pump up the wattage and see where I can get it too within that time frame if that makes sense? My plan is doing tuesday/thursday harder intervals and rest of the time is easy rides about 10hrs a week total time. Thoughts?

385

My overly simple thought is keep the easy rides EASY. Avoid the temptation to raise the power level to where it may bleed into the Z2-POL area.

The benefit to 3-hour Z1-POL ride on a trainer seems to go beyond the equivalent version on the road, based on my experience and roads available. That can and does vary for each person and what they can do. But if you can knock out a full pedal Z1 ride with no coasting, I find it very rewarding, even at the middle range of the Z1-POL area.

386

Just to make sure I get the limiter here is should I try and maintain a ride based on Z1 POL HR say 130BPM or limiting it by Z1 power?

I did 3hrs on trainer <2min coasting or backpedaling for the duration. Long time for sure on the trainer LOL

387

For the HR decoupling, is it the average of the 1st half averages for power and HR over the 2nd half averages? I.e. for a 20 min interval, you’d use the two 10 minute averages for both HR and Power? In a longer interval like this, I am noticing it takes me a full minute for my HR to get up to a steadier state.

I had been looking at this as a 1 to 2 minute average of HR early in the interval, but post the 1 minute it took my HR to catch up to the work being performed, and comparing that to the last 1 to 2 minutes of the interval to guage decoupling. i.e. I did Juneau -1 Sunday, and skipped over the intermediate recoveries to hold a 19 minute SS interval. My 1.5 min average HR for minutes 1 to 3.5 of the interval was 148, and the for the final 1.5 minutes was 156. I took this to mean there was a ~5.4% (i.e. 156 / 148 - 1 = 5.4%) decoupling, indicating decent fitness, but perhaps some more to be gained…

Using your formulas for my 9.5 min averages, I get: (241 / 149) - (241 / 155) = 6.3%…this would suggest quite a bit more fitness to be gained…? How are other’s calculations for SS intervals looking? I would image the higher in intensity you go, and the longer the interval, the less the potential decoupling, as you are operating at a higher % of max HR to begin with…?

As I look at the 3 other intervals in the session I did, I note that the 1.5 min HR methodology I used produced more consistent decoupling vs the 1st half / 2nd half Pwr/Hr averages. I.e. 5.4%, 4.6%, 5.2%, and 3.9% for 1.5 minute HR/HR decoupling for the 4 intervals vs. 6.3%, 4.3%, -3.0%, and 0.3% for the 50/50 Pwr/Hr averages. Admittedly, the last two intervals I spiked the power way up in the final minutes, especially in the 3rd interval, which probably explans those two results. In the 2nd interval, my average power only crept up by 1 way from 246 to 247.

388

The HR vs Power is a touchy subject. You will get info on both sides and even more so when looking at these longer, lower intensity rides.

I tend to watch both and try to stay mid-level on power. It usually keeps my HR under the Z1 cap, but you may well experience cardiac drift upwards as fatigue builds. That will vary on a number of factors, but it’s one reason I try to keep on the middle to low end of power, especially for the longer “easy” rides.

389

I may be wrong, but using something as short as a single 20 minute interval seems like the wrong way to try and evaluate HR Decoupling.

I am skimming the articles linked in my HR Coupling page to see if they have recommendations on minimum time for evaluation. But I think you need to be looking at workouts in the 2+ hour range.

How long should optimal decoupling last relative to your race duration?

  • There is no research to back this up, but based on experience, for cycling I use two to four hours of steady AeT exercise as the common range.
  • The longer the event, the longer the coupling necessary for success. If your cycling-related race duration typically falls into the two- to four-hour range simply train for that duration at AeT.
390

I was looking at the article from TP that you referenced, and that seemed to be the context.

I went back and looked at my most recent Pettit ride and compared the 1st 6 minutes of of the Endurance 2 interval to the last 6 minutes of the Endurance 8 interval, and I got 1.1% (i.e. 163/124 - 163/125), and no decoupling using my HR/HR method of an early 1.5 min average against the last 1.5 minute average. Maybe that is a little too low of an intensity, although that should line for an effective Z1 for my HR. (Max 182 (although Whoop estimates 188) and recovered RHR ~45…

No ideal how to self analyze myself----my HR decoupling is somewhere between 0% and 6.3%!

391

Ok thanks Chad just looking to try and build my Z1 power numbers and overall power curve so gonna keep playing with this plan as I like the progress so far.

392

The intensity of Pettit may be good. It won’t likely be too easy, but it’s way too short. Again, you need to be looking at rides in the 2 hour range, not 60 minutes.

393

Grab a copy of my google sheet and you can use that for a starting point, if you haven’t already.

image
image765×714 44.6 KB

394

Figured I’d bump this up to the top. It’s getting close to build time for me and my altered version of the short power build and XCO specialty plans are looking sort of like a polarized model. The differences being that instead of moderately long VO2 intervals for the intensity, it will be the prescribed short power intervals which is a mixture of anaerobic repeats, up to 5-6 minute intervals at 106-108% in the XCO plan.

I’ve changed around the LV plans since I am trying to build a triathlon plan for Xterra racing, and there’s just no way I can actually fit in the level of intensity of those plans along with doing running… let alone trying to fit in a running interval day. So in the interest of keeping the hard days hard, and the easy days easy I picked 2 cycling based interval days, 1 running interval day and then filling the rest of my workouts in with aerobic endurance up to lower tempo power zones depending on duration.

Judging how this winter has gone, I think my lack of VO2 work in January has halted any FTP improvements. It feels like I went sideways this month on the bike, but at least I did make improvements running and swimming. To be perfectly honest, doing SSBIILV as part of a tri plan is a bit hard, and doesn’t give enough time to recover properly for all of the hard bike workouts, so I think that the VO2 work in it has suffered, especially with the super hard weekend work along with a long run, then trying to start the next week with intensity I don’t usually feel good until the Thursday of the week, then Friday hard, sat hard, sunday long run, and never fully recover for the VO2 ride the next week.

395

I’ve been keeping my “polarized” approach simple. I have enough to worry about with teaching and writing and life, that, although I keep an eye on the numbers, I don’t want the numbers to become another piece of the cognitive or affective load.

I think there’s a lot of value at looking at HR rather than wattage for the aerobic work. HR (and SMO2) tell you what stress the body is taking on to do the work, whereas watts just tell you the work being done ( btw – I’ve been using powermeters of one sort or another since '98, when I became the third owner of a rebuilt first gen SRM). Yes, hydration, stress, caffeine, humidity and other factors affect HR, but that’s because they are all forms of metabolic stress, and stress matters.

My AeT HR is 120. So I just keep it under 120 for the two-hour trainer sessions that are my daily bread and butter. Some days this is 260w. Some days it’s 240, and I just accept the difference. One of my old coaches said, “it doesn’t matter how fast you go on your slow days, it matters how fast you go on your fast days,” and I think that’s the thing to keep in perspective about endurance work, and not micromanage it.

Now, I’m using PE and the Humon to keep me in line on the easy days – if the Humon data field in the Garmin goes orange, my breathing has also increased, there is a little burn in my legs, and duh, I’m at/over AeT. HR may be below 120, watts may be below 75% of FTP, I may be a knucklehead who has trained my mind to “just toughen up,” for the last thirty years, but the oxygenation rate doesn’t lie. So, although those other markers are “within my zones,” for that day, for that workout, I’m going too hard. Back off and save the energy for another day.

I’ve been doing a two-week cycle that amounts to week 1, 2 zone 5 interval workouts, week 2, 1 sweet spot workout (as Coach Chad says, those in-between fibers are still important, and you race in that zone a good bit, so keep it open now and then) and 1 zone 5 interval workout. Every other day is just turning the pedals for 1:45-2:00 below AeT.

Almost a month in, I’ll see where I am at the end of Feb.

396

I’ve been doing 4 hr endurance rides on the weekend, 1.5 hr indoor endurance workout on the trainer, then 1, maybe 2 VO2max sessions a week - mix of workouts with shorter and longer intervals. Plus strength session. About 8-9 hrs a week total.

In a few weeks, I’ll be starting SSBLV2, and will keep my long endurance ride on the weekend.

My goal is to improve my fat metabolism, and am planning to do more endurance rides this year than in previous, less sweet spot (not that I don’t think sweet spot is helpful, but hours have to come out of the week somewhere).

Hard to know if it’s working, as the true test will be at the 5-6 hr point on long rides, which I’ve not done any of yet.

397

Mine is on hiatus for a bit, The flu has rampaged through the school where I teach, and my number came up this weekend. Spring racing (March) is rubbished. I’ll see about April-May.

I’m going with Joe Friel’s old rule of thumb – do two days of easy base rides for every day you had symptoms, then do hard stuff. So, I reckon that my first interval day again will be about Feb 23 (figuring that I’m off the bike for the rest of the week).

398

I just finished my winter erg training plan/taper/race (mid-September to Feb 3) with a 2000 m race yesterday (standard erg race distance). I decided to try a polarized plan this year versus a typical “all zone” plan which I had employed in prior years. Since I am 60 YO, it is getting hard to improve my times each year. Both this year and last had no illnesses and training went as planned. Race conditions and equipment for indoor rowing are identical every year so no confounding variables affect results.

My weekly routine this year was 4 days a week aerobic at 75% of MHR i.e., 3 x 20 minutes with 3 min rest (rest interval was to give my lower cheeks a chance to decompress). I started 2 days a week of VO2Max workouts after 6 weeks of base building, so early November. Wednesday was 3 sets of 12, 30 sec at 120% of FTP with 15 sec rest intervals, 3 min rest between sets. Saturday’s VO2Max sessions were 4 x 5 min at 105% VO2max with 3 min rest between sets. After 7 weeks of the 2 VO2Max workouts per week I was burning out and switched the Wednesday intervals to 3 x 10 min at 90% FTP and increased the Saturday RI to 4 minutes from 3. The one VO2Max workout per week combined with the SS workout was sustainable. I continued this routine until 2 weeks before the race when I started to taper.

During the race I felt stronger than expected and my power seemed to go deeper into the race. Recovery was almost instantaneous and there was no leg soreness afterwards, in fact I got on the bike for 90 minutes of SS in the afternoon. My average power for the 6:56.6 2000 meter effort was 310 watts versus 6:57.4 or 307 watts last year. This is the first year in about the last 10 years that my time has improved year over year. So I guess that was a success, although some might say not significant.

Next year I will follow the polarized plan with some minor adjustments. I will build base for 6 to 8 weeks before I start 1 SS and 1 VO2max workout per week, not 2 VO2max WOs per week.

In conclusion, I was surprised that I was able to improve performance given that my perception of the overall RPE of the polarized plan was lower than the “all zone” plan, and thus easier to maintain through the entire erg season.

399

Putting it all together, it looks like your training was successful. I am wondering though, why you chose a SS workout, which is a workout in zone 2 (of a 3 zone scheme)? According to the POL method you should avoid workouts in Z2.

400

Hi jomu

I think you are asking me about my choice of second day of interval workouts going from the 30s/15s sets to the 3 x 10 min sets. If so, I thought I understood from Seiler that longer interval workouts over 90% of ftp hit the bottom end of Z3. I could be wrong there, but he certainly recommends 4 x 16 min for cycling.

Basically, I wanted extra stress but couldn’t handle another day of VO2max workouts in a week.

401

As a point of reference what hr for you separates seiler zones 2/3?

402

At our age, to stay the same you’ve got to improve by 10%. Well done