MTB Geometry & Suspension Discussion

Equipment
41

Grip it and RIP IT!!! :wink:

1 Like
42

Absolutely agree with you

It was just that the marketing blurb on the NZ site had it classified as “Enduro”.

It’s an ideal “trail” bike if you want to race, or DC bike if you want to do some chunkier adventures with friends.

1 Like
43

I think hers is “just” the 9.9 model (in fact, last year’s paint job). The only difference is she’s running Kovee wheels instead of Line wheels, oh and that prototype SID suspension that all the pros are riding.

44

Yeah, from what I’ve seen all of the models now come with a pike instead of a Sid

1 Like
45

Interesting, you are correct. So her’s is actually a ‘23 9.9 with XX SL and Kovee bits rather than an underforked ‘24.

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46

True for all but the 9.9 Shimano XTR build kit that has Fox forks & shocks.

47

Along those lines, how steep is too steep for seat tube angles?

Reeb used to approve the SST for a 120mm fork but recently changed to 130mm minimum. With a 120mm fork, it would have something like a 67.5 degree HA and 78 degree ST… other than moving the seat forward WRT the crankset, what other issues might arise from a steep seat tube?

48

Assuming you don’t slide your seat back in the rails to compensate or make any front end changes (don’t want to for bar reach reasons or aren’t able to if you are already slammed back), it will have the effect of putting you more “on the front wheel” from a weight distribution perspective. You will me more “in the middle” of the bike and “on top” of the pedals when seated.

Some people like all that while others may want a balance a touch more rearward. Could make the bike more responsive to inputs (in addition to the obvious steeper Head Tube angle, shorter Front Center & Wheelbase) with that weight shift. Once you are standing, and particularly with the seat dropped, the Seat Tube Angle are non-issues.

1 Like
49

That XTR build you linked to Chad, is that a current build?

I can’t find it, but I wonder if it’s a Grip2 damper. Which is kind of the same thing. Amazing fork, but you’re making compromises / changes that aren’t world cup ready

50

I killed it after I re-read your post and figured I was headed in the wrong direction, but just brought it back. There are two links, and the bottom one is the current one AFAIK.

Fox Factory 34, Float EVOL air spring, GRIP2 damper, tapered steerer, 44mm offset, Kashima Coat, Boost110, 15mm Kabolt axle, 130mm travel

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51

Ah, I see. Thought I was going crazy!

130mm Grip2 Fox34. Similar to a Pike, and a far cry from Jolanda’s SID SL.

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52

Indeed. And I would suspect she was on 120mm travel??? That 130mm setup and other stuff we mentioned just don’t make sense to me in the XC perspective generally speaking.

If this was branded as a Fuel EX, I could stomach it better :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s that darn “segment” creep that we see in cars showing here. Trek is all about that in the last 5 years or so, and it bugs me.

2 Likes
53

I find it interesting though. With the Super Duper Caliber coming, Trek must have approved Jolanda to ride the TF. Or if they “requested” her to, then either way you’d expect them to offer a version of it for sale.

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54

Thanks man. Again, happy with my HT but c’mon, steelie XC/DC bike hand welded in Colorado… it would be a blast. And possibly over 30 pounds.

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55

As long as you’re in Lycra, spend 90% of your time pedaling, and 90% in a structured workout, then yeah :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.

At least, those would be my criteria. I’m up at Kingdom Trails at the moment, and I’m still counting it as XC training, although I’m not getting QUITE that much pedaling time…

4 Likes
56

When looking at mountain bikes there are really only 3 real categories that are meaningful on the spectrum. On either end, you have dedicated race bikes for XC and DH.

Everything else is a Trail bike with various trade-offs between pedaling uphill as fast as an XC race bike and suspension that gives you confidence charging down the trail like a DH bike. If you look at the Trek lineup it’s SuperCal for XC - Top Fuel/Fuel/Remedy/Slash - Session for DH, Santa Cruz is Blur - Tallboy/5010/Hightower/Bronson/Megatower/Nomad - V10. As much as both brands would sell you on the differences between their Downcountry Top Fuel/Tallboy and Enduro Megatower/Slash there aren’t massive differences in these bikes beyond extra travel, overbuilt components & weight.

Segment creep or just outright marketing nonsense is everywhere in this space, and the perfect bike only exists if you know exactly how and where you want to ride it.

1 Like
57

I have looked at that actual bike and like a lot about it. Super cool details, so I totally get it :smiley:

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58

But those are EXACTLY the differences that matter for real use.

  • If I had someone test ride a Top Fuel, then a Slash and they came back without being able to tell a difference… I’d be rather surprised.

  • I get your broader point and when we are talking about steps from one model to the next (ex: Top Fuel to Fuel EX) the differences may be minor to a degree. But that “middle” group you made as a HUGE range in feel and potentially performance, IMO.

  • I don’t necessarily believe in perfection, but if a person really understands their planned use and experience, there are likely 1 or 2 bikes within any range that are better than the many that surround that.
3 Likes
59

I think it more boils down to playing the averages.

Like posted earlier, you really want a bike that’s the right bike for 90% of your riding, rather than a bike that can deal with the 1-10%. It’s hard though and sometimes it’s worth the compromise to always be “ready” for that one day a year. You just have to be aware that you’re giving something up.

4 Likes
60

:100:
Bingo!