Also not the best way to gather feedback…again, you have no way of knowing if the feedback is representative of your larger customer base. It is just reflective of those who choose to respond.
But it is much better than accidently triggering a chaotic conversation.
Again, I admire Nate’s openness and willingness to engage with his customers…I do not doubt his sincerity in the slightest. But I’m also willing to bet that TR is significantly larger than it was even 3 years ago. At some point, the tactics that worked when you were smaller do not apply anymore.
While I wish more companies and CEO acted as good faith partners like Nate / TR, I don’t know that this discussion is entirely productive.
While many people like this type of communication, for me at least it seems undisciplined. And I don’t think I am alone in highly valuing steadiness and discipline in a coach. Since TR strives to be a coach, for me, this kind of drama, while highly entertaining, is a negative mark against TR. As are the unfinished features and unfulfilled feature promises.
Sometimes it really is better not to see how the sausage is being made.
I think “undisciplined” is the right term…again, when you are smaller you can have these types of conversations. Not so much as you grow.
I personally don’t view it as a negative mark against TR, as I believe Nate’s intentions are good. He is trying to do the right thing. From that perspective, I even view it as a positive.
I would agree with you and while Nate’s intention was to know his customer base, the problem comes when its time to keep that base happy. He now has an idea about some of the feelings but you are never going to keep any group happy and especially not when it comes to how much cash we are all going to have in our pockets. Whenever we have employee satisfaction surveys at work I always laugh at the question “Do you feel you are adequately compensated for your work?” Who in their right mind looks at their boss and says “No thanks, I wouldnt like a pay raise”?
Sure, but by his own admission, he’s made mistakes before (cf Beers with Chad).
I certainly trust Nate to listen to his customers, but none of us can know what business pressures he needs to juggle. As pointed out elsewhere, some of those things may be easier to resolve in private and might cause fewer grey hairs for @Jonathan and his team But I’m sure it means that there’s never a dull moment at TR!
Ha…IIRC Beers with Chad was Insta Story being automatically deleted after 1 hour/day (?). Maybe this thread should be auto-terminated/deleted in X hours…
I don’t know why, but I feel like I need to clarify my previous post.
I stated that I’d leave if my cost went up, assuming that I’d be paying $20/mo or $189/yr. To be clear, I wouldn’t be leaving because I hate TR or feel like it’s some sort of broken promise. Those posters need to reflect a bit, in my opinion. TR is a business, not your bestie. Price hikes suck, but it’s not like we grandfathered folks haven’t gotten our money’s worth.
Instead, I’d be leaving to try competitors. At that price point, pretty much all the other software out there is in the same ballpark, so why wouldn’t I shop around? I know I can do that now as most have trials, but I have very little incentive to leave long-term since my TR price is lower and TR is good enough for me, despite any perceived shortcomings.
So in a nutshell, if I’m paying full price, you can expect me to shop around because it would make sense for me to do so! At my current rate, it does not make sense.
When we have received all updates to this point while holding our end of the bargain, why would we expect that to change?
The fact is, as has been repeatedly stated, is that there was a promise made that if you do not cancel your subscription, your price will never go up. What I would say is implicit in that promise is that upgrades come along with that subscription. Why? Because we’ve received all upgrades to this point. Again, why would we expect that to change?
@Chester_Grimpeur post is extremely valid in this situation. If I made that commitment to a bike shop and received all upgraded components for three years, why would I expect that to change just because the all new tech came out? That’s what I’ve been paying consistently to receive all along.
Correct. Because the deal up until now has been that legacy subscribers get all upgrades. That is what has happened with EVERY upgrade to this point. No questions asked. The only thing that has changed is the mention of changing what has been implicitly agreed to up until now.
So I think this highlights part of the problem…a lot of Legacy users are assuming that they will have to pay the current rate, when nothing like that has been communicated.
What if Legacy pricing went form $99 to $125 / year? Still a significant discount vs. the current rate and a pretty minor increase overall (~$2.00 / month). Are you still walking at that point?
Once again, that can work for a quirky little company that wants attention. But if you are meant to be a grown-up company offering a global product that reflects the values of its founders and employees, then you really shouldn’t be posting stuff online that self-destructs because you are worried what might be said by your staff when they are drunk.
“Making you a faster cyclist”, not “Providing you with entertainment”
In 2017 I thought TR was good value otherwise I wouldn’t have subscribed. Since then it has been completed revamped with calender, plan builder, ride / history metrics, group workout, AT, etc. It is not recognisable as the same product but I’m paying the same price.
I guess asside from Nate’s promise (thanks Nate ) I expected it to increase. (everything else has I’ve subscribed to)
It’s also probably the cheapest cycling thing I purchase in terms of yearly cost.
Same general rule applies. If the rate goes up to the point where competitor options look more competitive, then I’m going to shop around. That’s just how this whole idea of money in exchange for services works. If the price is low enough, I’m not going to bother shopping around because TR is good enough for me.
OK, but you didn’t answer the question…are you walking if they raise the price to $125?
I’m not trying to be an ass here, but this highlights the challenges of discussion like this. In a more controlled research project, you can dive into these critical details.
Right now, there are a lot of inflamed Legacy users upset about the idea of a promise being broken…but also a lot of false assumptions on their part, too. I would expect a lot of them (most?) to walk if the pricing jumped up to current rates. But there are breaking points well below that where they accept an increase and stay. So the challenge now is to find that breaking point…is it $10? $25? $50?
Once you have a better idea of that breaking point, you can make some financial calculations (as well as marketing ones).
I’ve been on Trainerroad since 2017 and have been very grateful of the Legacy Pricing Promise although I didn’t know about it before my first renewal. It has certainly helped keep me loyal to the product ALL YEAR ROUND despite only ever using it for 6 months of the year.
What I would say is that Trainerroad has changed beyond all recognition in the last 5 years both in terms of its product and its scope. In 2017 I was subscribing to a product that helped me get faster in the garage. This is exactly what I wanted then and its exactly what I want now as a 52 year old non competitor who aims for 4w/kg in the winter and to do 4,000 miles in the summer.
In 2017 there seemed to be little value incorporating outdoor rides into Trainerroad let alone having the facility to export training rides to a headunit to do outside. i don’t ever remember too much discussion or expectation about being able to analyse the training effect of outdoor rides, incorporating Triathlon plans, polarised training let alone Adaptive Training!
TR continue to vastly exceed all my expectations. Even if some of the functionality has no value to me I can see that has value to others and continues to help us get faster.
Ultimately I hope Nate trusts himself to do what he thinks is right because it’s proven very successful so far. Initially Legacy Pricing bought my loyalty. By their actions over the last 5 years Trainerroad have more than earned my trust and loyalty irrespective of any decision made about Pricing and Premium Products.
But I’m sure it means that there’s never a dull moment at TR!