Fast amateurs or just your average amateur?
Just recorded a podcast with Keegan going over his race in detail, including power and w/kg breakdown, and comparing it to my race for some humbling context, hehe.
Massive respect to anybody that gives that one a shot. Itās SUCH a hard race!
It was a pleasure to meet so many of you and hear your storiesāsuper inspiring and motivating for me!
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@Jonathan, you are not an average rider; you are well above average! 
Yeah sub 8 is far from average.
I did the race in 2024 about 12lbs heavier. This year I was lighter and stronger. I went from 9:42 to 8:29 in 1 year by losing weight and training an average of 13 hours a week on TR and outside
Congrats! Thatās what Iām talking about. I donāt like the way the TR podcast says just feed the training and let your body weight be what it will be. Thatās not good advice for those who may be carrying excess weight.
Probably 50% of the podcasts have been (at least partially) nutrition, carbs, weight regulation, diet, worries about blood sugar, etc., for the last couple/few months.
And Great Job, everybody! Itās a big deal to finish this race.
Oh, and Jonathan and Keegan talked about how there was at least one spot that people use as an unofficial feed zone, and that there were a bunch of people doing that on Saturday, despite it even being specifically mentioned as against the rules. Maybe Laurenās crew went there and handed her a bottle, or somebody not even on her crew just handed her one. She obviously should know better, but we all have brain farts. (I donāt know where that spot is relative to the feed zone where she dropped the bottles)
Really enjoying everyoneās race recaps. Seems like an absolutely crazy day on the bike and this years conditions did not help.
As for the weight nutrition thing I definitely think they talk about it, but they canāt go out and tell everyone to lose weight because there are a lot of people who have had weight issues or eating disorders. I think Jonathan has mentioned this personally and remember Ivy talking about it when she was on the podcast.
I also think if you focus on cutting weight while training for a big event itās going to negatively impact your training. There are right and wrong ways to go about it. Fueling the ride, cutting out alcohol and fast food made some big changes to my weight last year with no real change in the work.
Are you faster up hill being lighter? Yes. Are you faster if youāve been on a serious caloric deficit for 4-5 months? Probably not.
Knowing you can only take aid in the official feed zones is not some obscure rule buried in the rulebook
Who said anything like that? My point was that, if sheās rolling along and thereās a section of that trail/road where thereās a hundred people set up doing an unauthorized feed zone, in a place that it sounds like has been used for the same for a number of years, she may have gotten caught with some of that race brain that is talked about by others above. We all agree, she knows the rules, she was in the top 3, so why would she intentionally do something to disqualify herself? The odds lean toward her making a mistake. Thatās all.
As far as I can tell, we donāt even know any details of the offense yet, except she was DQād for getting assistance outside the feed zone.
eta: according to Jonathanās post below, apparently it was a planned handoff by her, so I donāt give her the benefit of the doubt any longer.
Howās everyone feeling? For me this is way different fatigue than usual. Legs feel decent, but Iām pretty tired overall. Still a bit foggy.
We get it. May I make a recommendation? Next time donāt watch?
Itās like anything else, it is compelling if you have done the race and know the course really well and care. People can watch the same thing and take it in on very different levels. All you see is two riders on brown ground. We see and feel what is happening as people that have been there and done that. No different than watching golf and either picking up on the tiny nuances of the skills happening or someone else just seeing guys walking around on grass.
Well, spent the last two days driving myself solo back to Boston Mass. Sitting here after my first real, real good night of sleep in about 2.5 weeks thinking about it all over again when Iām supposed to be catching up on work.
The Marginal Gains nerd in me is already looking for areas I could improve. Got caught in some traffic on St. Kevinās. Descents. Aid Stops. Ended up carrying too much fluids and fuel in places, especially for Powerline / Carter and lost time. But at the end of the day, super happy how it went and my warped personality is already thinking about next year, which I honestly didnāt think would be the case. I guess Iām a glutton for punishmentā¦
On Saturday, I told everyone that would listen that I would never do that again. Iām already going back on that because I feel like I could have easily gone 20-30 minutes faster if we get lucky and get 2023 conditions again some year.
Iām hoping I can get back in to take another shot at 2026 as well! Lots of ways I can see decreasing my time from 9:02:10 to 8:59:59.
Iād be interested to hear some of the Strava descent segments from this group. My self preservation tells me that Iāll continue to remain cautious but interested to know how far off I am from your āaverageā finishers (btw, no one that goes under 12 is an average athlete, great work all!)
A few key descents:
Leadville Powerline DH - 12:59
Columbine Down 2020 - 24:39 (this one seems slow based off rankings and people flying by me)
Sugarloaf to Hagerman - 6:10
For those thinking about 2026 already, is there a good way to import the course garmin route so I can āpracticeā some of the hard climbs on my trainer? I realized Iām in good shape but I need to really work on long sustained efforts, like what I needed on Kevinās. So Iād love to be able to load in the route and do repeats of the climbs. I know from the expo that Rouvy has the actual race course (or will very soon), but I donāt need the video of that climb, it lives in my nightmares!
I still wonāt climb like āaverage Joe Coach Jonathanā but it may help.
Want to clarify a couple things:
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We have a stance of advocating for fueling the work because it is a general principle that, if followed, will improve performance. We try to avoid any narratives that could align with themes of depravation because we are speaking to an audience of tens or hundreds of thousands on any given week, and it would be irresponsible of us to communicate those narratives and approaches not knowing the individual risks that each person faces with those narratives. A more simple way to say it is ābetter safe than sorry.ā
The implication in this thread is that we are telling athletes to over-feed and not worry about weight at all, but thatās not true. Alex Larson has recently mentioned on the podcast that itās great for athletes to want to lose weight to get to a healthy weight, and we agree. Weāve also had recent episodes with Kyle Pfaffenbach where he advocates for periodizing carbohydrate intake and integrating fasting strategically to optimize body composition for performance, and we agree.
When it comes to nutrition, itās hard to have nuanced conversations out in the open, and these topics almost always carry a lot of emotional weight for the individual. That said, I just want to make it clear that we have never advocated for a stance that body weight doesnāt matter. Fuel the work, let your individual situation and priorities depict what an optimal body compensation is, and we suggest working with a qualified dietician if you need more guidance on it.
As pointed out in this thread, I have recently discussed my weight drop leading into Leadville as well.
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According to athletes in the race and race footage, Laurenās husband was stationed near Carter Summit where it seems they pre-arranged the bottle handoff that occurred. He called out her name to get her attention and had a bottle in his outstretched hand which she took. It explicitly states in the rider guide and in the feed zone section of the website that you canāt provide any support outside of the 4 designated feed zones (8 stops total). And yes, there are TONS of amateurs that have friends and family providing aid outside of the feed zones. It can make things a bit sketchy, and while Iām not concerned with somebody gaining an unfair advantage on me, the event should certainly aim to manage that better.
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True, but @Jonathan mentioned in the podcast right before Leadville that he dropped 7lbs in a fairly short period of time and thought he may drop 1 or 2 more before race day. The shift in his W/kg with the drop likely helped significantly on Saturday as he had a really stellar showing.
I donāt think loading the course is really necessary to practice the climbs instead, but rather focusing on longer tempo and SS efforts that align with the duration of the climbs would be ideal. The climbs are going to be 30 to 90 min in length roughly, depending on your ability.