I think you might change your opinion if you listen to Coach Chad in podcast 189 starting around 29:30 or read how Ric Stern “discovered” using the ramp test as a rough FTP estimate over 25 years ago. Run the numbers.
My second attempt at this today. Same TTE, 2W less. Hrm. Might take up darts instead.
My point was that in the absence of data from rides or tests previously executed, a ramp test can give you an FTP-based training baseline, and may be particularly usefulfor new athletes or those unfamiliar with pacing longer tests. My point was NOT that a ramp test consistently gives you a good estimate of FTP.
Put more succinctly, a ramp test is better than a guess. 75% of MAP is a decent ballpark estimate. A smart coach might dial that back to 72% in the absence of other data, and then seek to determine/validate FTP several weeks later with a longer test.
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agreed, the ramp test is a simple and quick way to get in the ballpark of threshold. And then use that to do a better test of your threshold. For a new rider I’m also with you on starting conservatively (72%) and taking it from there (exactly what that means is “it depends”).
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Here’s a quick snapshot of how to validate a test in wko5. Here’s two power curves for the same person. In both cases the cursor is at 350w.
Here’s after some work:
In both cases, the cursor is at 355w. In the first one, not FTP because it’s not the inflection point. In the second one, FTP. TTE went down but that was expected. Ignore the red bit in the first one, it’s wonky from the test values. And if you’re wondering, yes, just about everyone has 5min power as their best strength.
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I wish TR to become that smart coach… From a standpoint from newb, method like ramp test is good ballpark estimation. But also a standpoint from newb, 75% is likely be high value which makes every sweetspot intervals into threshold intervals and over-unders into murderer.
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just about everyone has 5min power as their best strength.
Great.
Guess I have to train my 5:15min power if I want to win solo! 
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Thanks for this. I’m not actively coaching individuals, but self-coaching and working generally with my team. I need to pull the trigger on WKO5 and get into the weeds. I used 4 for a while but got away from it. Appreciate your participation and openness here on the forum!
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The biggest skill any rider can have is to feel something and not be told by a screen. It’s a massive skill that not everyone has got but it goes a long way. — Giro winner Tao Geoghegan Hart
Sounds like a pro vote for the KM TTE test. 
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How important is the blocking the workouts on 3 consecutive days (e.g. Mon, Tues, Wed all V02 then rest of week easy then repeat following week)… is that more beneficial then spacing out the 3 V02 workouts throughout the week. Perhaps extra recovery between v02 workouts would increase power/quality of 2nd or 3rd workouts?
Yes it would but it is not about holding certain power but eliciting vo2 max. Blocking workouts is for truly overloading your system. To incorporate fatigue levels the intervals become shorter with every workout.
This causes a lot more stress but also theoretically more adaptations (progressive overload) - like any workout stacking.
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What if you block VO2max intervals into consecutive days AND do them with a hard start AND pedal really fast? Will you get an even bigger increase that way?
The hard start/high cadence is to get the most from each workout yes.
I’m wondering…if you do V02 type work in other (non cycling) exercise…i.e. I’m a duathlete so run 3 times a week too…how much cross over benefit do people think there is (purely from a V02 type adaptation)…so rather than (say) 3 x V02 cycling workouts consecutively…could I get the same benefit from V02 bike workout, V02 run workout, V02 bike workout…?
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Or maybe just do intervals with one leg the first day and then the other the next? Would that work? 
I do not know, probably your VO2 max will rise 40% and you cure the hunger in Africa 
(yes, I get your sarcasm in the question). I have done them exactly that way you described and the outcome felt better than doing 1 workour per week, but it was only personal experience based on followed workouts and increased 5min to 60 min power. But I know your opinion about these things so that is why I do not have any pubmed article confirming my experience or any scientific proof it works better than normal way of doing 1 vo2 max workout per week.
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Of course, you can and you will get the results, whatever floats your boat
I’ve asked KM sometime ago somewhere in this thread if you could do the vo2 workouts running, and he said yes.
I think you’d somehow want to create the oxygen demand mainly with the muscles you use for cycling, but running might be sufficiently close.
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Can most pure runners reach VO2max while cycling? (The answer is no.) Can most triathletes? (The answer is again no.) Can most pure cyclists? (The answer is yes.)
TL,DR: It’s not just about training the heart. VO2max is an integrative measure of the functioning of the entire cardiovascular system.
ETA: Here is an example of some of the extra-cardiac changes that occur with training, all of which contribute to the increase in VO2max (or ability to reach it in the first place).
Watching…
Personally I hate the 20mFTP Test, I can never get it right.
I do however love a Ramp Test… no brainer, every minute hit it more
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@empiricalcycling states that he is chasing the central adaptations with his intervals because the peripheral adaptations are slow and occur over longer periods of time from doing general endurance work.
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