JOIN cycling app

Join is so simple and we overthink way too much. “Failing” a workout is overthinking, consistency and volume are going to improve you as a cyclist not +/- 10watts for a single workout.

Ive had a tough time letting go of the over analysis but i feel better for it. I started using Join worrying if the workouts would be hard enough and frequent enough. Did they do enough sprinting for my goals etc. Ive gone through a few months now and have recently set lifetime PBs for 15s - 2mins (with barely any sprinting :hear_no_evil:). FTP is holding steady, maybe improved slightly (might test soon, EF is much improved). Ive been training seriously for 5-6 years now so glad to see there is still some improvement to be had, especially by not bashing myself looking at those blue bars :rofl:

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AI teaching you a lesson “this is what happens when skip the workout I have decreed you should have done”

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Finally getting into my outdoor workout groove (when I can - it’s been raining for days, and now we’ve got a heat warning, so I went out at 7:30AM this morning in the fog) so I’ve now experienced workout score in a variable environment. I will say that the score matches my gut feeling of how I adhered to the workout which is nice. From a what to do with it perspective It MAY slightly nudge me to try to do better, I’m not sure.

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Regarding Workout Score, other than a number or percentage, does JOIN show you the intervals it automatically detects? Has anyone compared this to intervals.icu?

(NOTE: I’m assuming that JOIN does some sort of automatic interval detection but don’t actually know. I find intervals.icu does a pretty good job and wonder why it’s taking TR so long to do the same. Seems like they already have an AI/ML algorithm to analyze a structured workout to assign its Progression Level, and that they could apply the same analysis to an actual workout to assess the work performed and training benefit, then run it through the existing Adaptation process. Anyway, I digress into Workout Levels v2 … :man_shrugging:)

JOIN doesn’t show you many details about things. It does not show you anything about detected intervals or its process, just the score with a brief blurb. Personally that’s part of why I like it. Too much data can be stressful and overwhelming.

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Here was this morning, for example:

With a score of 4.8 on the actual activity.

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Thanks. This is helpful. I plan to activate the trial period tomorrow and get some riding in this weekend after a 10-day break.

Happy to hear you’ll be JOINing us. Ba dum tss.

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I don’t think Join detects intervals. It looks at total numbers - TiZ, duration, IF, etc. Doing 2x20 or 1x40, would score the same imo.

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Yeah, that’s one of the things I’m really enjoying about the app. It gives you a solid training foundation in terms of breaking out overall volume, ramping it up, and guiding you on the right intensity, but it feels more like guard rails to keep you on the right track rather than a perfect-seeming road map. Ramp up too quickly, it’ll tell you to back off, do too much intensity it’ll throw rest days at you, and do too little intensity it’ll keep throwing harder workouts your way.

It’s also not locked into a 7 day schedule (e.g. VO2Max every Tuesday, Threshold every Thursday), so if you haven’t set your availability to zero for some days (i.e. set up regular rest days), it’ll make adjustments and give you a rest day on the weekend if that makes the most sense based on a heavy weekday workload. But if you go for a ride on your rest day, it’ll just make the following the day a rest day and keep making adjustments from there. It seems weird at first, but it’s a tremendously flexible system and doesn’t have the rigid Pass/Fail funnel feeling of TR.

Basically, you can just ride your bike and do what you want, and it’ll provide as much guidance as you’re willing to listen to without feeling like you’re being penalized for making different choices or having external life events.

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@FergusYL Great way of describing it!

@FergusYL thank you for this. I’m definitely at a point where I’m reassessing priorities, and realize I had placed an over-emphasis on cycling for my stage of life. Along the way I’ve lost a little bit of the passion I had for it and, while the gains I saw during Build were rewarding, I crashed and burned hard during Specialty due to the added stress of trying to remain compliant with four days of intensity per week (MV plan) plus some other life factors. A more polarized approach with the added flexibility that JOIN offers is hopefully what I need. I’m very appreciative of TR, its platform, and especially this forum. I’m definitely maintaining my subscription as I hope Workout Levels V2 and future enhancements continue to move TR in this direction.

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Think I’ve run into a problem, or at least I don’t understand what’s happening. I’ve changed my plan to cyclocross race and picked a weekend in September as my “goal race”. I have my training level set to “advanced” (9-11h per week), but Join is reducing my weekly hours to about 7. The way my plan looks, its planning to drop my level by about 50% over the course of the plan. Thats not really what I want?!

This week for example, it took my Sunday ride (availability 4 hours) off the plan, but at the same time I get the “try to do a bit more” warning. Next weeks Sunday ride is only 2 hours.

I’m wondering if it is because when I put the “goal race” in, it asked about duration and amount of climbing. For a cross race, that is off course very short/low. But maybe it thinks I don’t need to be that fit for it?

I did the FTP plan before, and “level” was constantely rising in the plan, and time per week was in line with what I’d set.

Thanks, but its all high enough. There are 12.5 hours available. I haven’t changed it from what it was on the plan before.

I do like the workouts on the new plan, its sort of what I was expecting. I’m just not keen on the predicted loss in fitness! Maybe there is an idea behind it, “be fresh enough for anaerobic work”, but not sure why its downregulating duration of workouts to that degree.

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So JOIN is doing something super interesting. I’ve hit that point in the summer when I’m starting to feel really strong (strongest in quite a few years, actually) so I’m also pushing myself a bit harder and am not always great at keeping the intensity down on long rides.

I’m not sure what’s going on in the AI/algorithm/whatever, but the app has been giving me 4 days of riding a week now instead of 5, presumably to keep fatigue under control since I’ve gotten bad at low intensity rides. My availability is set pretty much wide open (all days available, only limited to a set number of hours for a few of them), so it’s not because of any preselected rest days.

Considering my personal mantra for the year has been Be Less Dumb™ I’m finding this super helpful, since I’d rather tone it down a bit and be able to ride more. Not that it could stop me, of course, but I find the extra reinforcement from the app helpful in doing what I know I should be doing anyway.

Quick update: totally forgot a planned ride on Friday (4hr gravel ride, 8 RPE expected), so this is probably more helpful as a data point for how it works. I deleted the big ride, it went back up to 5. Then back down to 4 after I added it back in.

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The app has 11 hours planned for this week. Also, I’m taking half-days on a lot of Fridays now so I can do big rides without having to spend large amounts of time away from the family.

Here’s the basic structure as is:
4 day week (with planned big gravel ride on Friday): Tues/Wed/Friday/Sun

5 day week (gravel ride deleted): Tues/Wed/Thurs/Sat/Sun, which is the standard week it gives me.

This is my availability for the week:

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You have a family and that much time? Kudos :smiley::+1:

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Those are outside numbers for the most part. And 4:40AM and I are way too well acquainted.

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Yeah, it’s not something I ever really thought about, but I really like things structured as Mon rest, Tues/Wed/Thur work, Fri rest, Sat/Sun work. Except when I don’t, but the app handles that really well.

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It also usually makes the third day in a row a little easier - I often get cadence intervals, for example.

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