The thing is that there wouldn’t be very interesting tactics to this race. The smart woman rider would only ever follow wheels until the end. Sending male attacks up the road wouldn’t elicit a response from any woman because the male cannot win anyways. Nor would a team send their male to match that attack bc why waste that riders energy. No team would send that male up in the first place because they’re better off pulling their woman rider. It would really just be a race where the woman who can follow wheels best wins. It seems sort of demeaning tho I understand you don’t mean it that way (why not just have them race their own race because they obv have the ability to do so)
Oh yeah, I understood where you were coming from…I was just adding the perspective of what I have seen female racer’s say. Ultimately, IMO, it is their call to decide how they want to race…but based on those comments, I would think an “exhibition” of that sort would bother them even more, since it would emphasize the need for male domestiques.
I don’t know how you balance the desire for women to race in the same field as men but prevent men assisting them. Some of it is inevitable…the elite women can hang with some pretty strong men if they ride wheels. How you determine that some are deliberately “helping” is an answer I simply don’t have…
the obvious answer is to ban specific assistance between teammates of different sexes…but when they start wearing different jerseys, or are just friends helping friends, it gets pretty murky.
I’m female and lean pretty feminist, so I agree with your points. I just think if women (gravel) racers want legitimacy, then the fields need to be totally separate. Maybe it goes against gravel ethos “mass start, strongest person should win” but the Lauren already demonstrated how the rules can be bent and give an advantage.
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Sending someone up the road early and having them ahead for a female attack up a hill or hard section to catch them is 100% a smart tactic.
Isolate the other women, make others pull etc. The tactics of a male domestique race would be endless and have so many end possibilities.
Like I said before, an all women race is just as amazing, but until the rules are solid it would be very interesting to watch a race as discussed.
yeah, I think that is the ultimate ending for this issue…but I would like to see them try some other solutions before reaching that conclusion. I do think having a mass start is a very cool and unique aspect of gravel racing. I would hate to deprive the women’s field of that experience.
Well in that case, that race already exists. It is the current state of gravel. Do they actually do it?
Well in my experience they do this already.
The biggest race I have been to is Barry and I race the medium distance race and am typically in the front group. The top 3 women are in that front group trying to hold on until the end.
I’m referring to pro level organization as how it would be a spectacle of tactics.
I did link the thread where this was discussed - I don’t see how transgender athletes have anything to do with the topic of this thread?
You are coming across like you just want an argument.
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They are, and that athlete is suspended from the forum until they can engage in a constructive dialogue with moderators about what we expect from members of our community and how what moving forward effectively looks like.
A note to all athletes in this thread:
Constructive debate is encouraged and can be super beneficial to a discussion, but we won’t make space for athletes who cannot constructively contribute to the dialogue or intend to cause dissent, in this topic or in any TrainerRoad topic.
Failure to do so repeatedly will result in removal from the forum, and in this case, if the thread cannot be directed in a more constructive direction, will result in the closing of the thread as well.
Please be cool while constructively debating, ya’all.
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I think the practical solution for mass-start gravel events is reasonably straightforward: “No male domestiques for competitive women”.
That makes the policy clear, and then leave it up to the race organizers to determine how to apply the policy.
If you watched the F1 race this past weekend, you see race stewards exercising judgement similar to this to determine time penalties.
I understand the practical challenges of race organizers monitoring a gravel race that goes through remote areas - but this is where judgement comes into play - e.g. multiple complaints, go pro footage, (or lack thereof) etc. - and the race organizers say is final.
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part of the problem is the field size if you do that as well as the “experience” itself. At least at races like Unbound the field size really is part of the appeal and excitement. If you separate things that would take a lot of that away.
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Definitely. I hate it when you’re in a field of 5 women, it sucks and makes me not want to sign up. It’s a feedback loop that’s hard to break out of. Even on my group rides, I’m usually the only female in a group of middle aged men.
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The only way I’ll ever see a podium is if I’m one of only 3 women in the race 
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OK, that whole thing was freakin’ nuts…what was killing me was how polite the teams and the race directors were being…“We’d like to offer you P2”…“So that is P2 behind Ocon”…“no, sorry, behind Lewis. That is what we would like to offer you.”…“OK, we’ll accept that.”
But they must have been throwing-headsets kind of mad!!
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Not sure there’s a heck of a lot of change in things since this topic was hot some months ago.
I do really hope they (Lifetime in particular, but also all the Gravel races etc) get it properly sorted before the big $250k series next year.
I don’t have a bone directly in this fight, but here is my $0.02:
The first issue is that the rules (explicit, assumed or by convention) are transparent. Race organizers need to clearly say was is acceptable or not, and then people can decide if they want to race under those explicit rules
Next I would have everyone at the pointy end sign a document agreeing to the rules, which would include naming every teammate at the race. And teammates would also need to sign
If anyone violates the rules, they and all of their teammates are out
Not perfect / won’t make everyone happy, but would cut down on what is / isn’t allowed
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Like this?
Yeah, I literally LOL’d when Toto lost his schitt.
And while there were never any postings of Mercedes convos with the race directors, I still marvel at how polite the ones between the RD and Red Bull were.
In the end, for me personally, none of this matters. I love the casual/community vibe of most gravel races. I’m not leading the pack and am really competing against myself. If the pros want to bicker about rules and regulations for a race so be it. But for most gravel races as far as I can tell a very large majority of the participants are not at the front of the pack worrying about there things.
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That was hilarious