Is this just bad tire grip, too aggressive of a line, or what? (Practice race crash)

I’m pretty sure that doesnt apply to bicycles.

My understanding is that people aim to reduce lean angle on motorcycles in corners is that they tend to have things hanging off of them that hit the ground…pegs, muffler, bags, etc.

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I’ve always learned what @hugo1 says - that you want to keep the bike (bicycle, not motorcycle) as upright as possible, so lean in with your upper body (and your knee if coasting). But that could be 100% wrong - it’s not because it’s what I learned that it’s correct.

Look at the fastest riders. It’s impossible to hang with them in corners in any other way. That goes for bicycles and motorcycles on asphalt. The difference is that bicycles are much, much easier to corner fast, even at 60-70 kph. Also, most bicycle riders suck at cornering, so even with decent cornering technique you can drop them and save power in every tight corner.

There’s just no way anyone, on a bicycle or motorbike, can be on my wheel if he keeps his body upright and arms straight. If tried, it’ll surely just end up in a crash like the one displayed above.

And yes, since both vehicles have two wheels and rounded tyres, same physics and techniques applies. Bicycles are just easier and more forgiving.

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I see Nibali and Cancellara dropping their knees inside the turns, that’s good enough for me. Must have gone to the same school.

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I should fully acknowledge that I am no expert here…but I really do believe that the physics involved are fundamentally different.

Is it not correct that motorcycles have a maximum lean angle due to clearance? That, if true, would of course mean that the only way to further lower total center of gravity is to move the rider lower independent of the motorcycle. This would be a fundamental difference if true, and would possibly be a reason why technique is different for bicycles and motorcycles.

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Motorcycle tires have WAY more grip as a result of a MUCH larger contact patch. Very different physics.

It’s tough to tell, but, if you didn’t instinctually hit your brakes in the turn, something as minor as a little sand could have caused it. Same thing happened to me last week, but, I was intentionally pushing the limits to see how fast I could take a turn before sliding out. I found out.

DON’T hang off the bike like an ape. Pedal cycles are not Moto GP bikes, and it’s best to keep your body weight closer to the bike, maintaining control with maximum grip.

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As said id avoid a BRAND new tyre in a race, they are a bit more slippery when new due to release agents. Give it a good few rides first at least

What’s a good pressure to run on? For say a road race, carbon clinchers, asphalt (not smooth). Curious as I usually run 90 psi and I’m 74KG

That’s a lot of body lean for a corner where you aren’t carrying much speed. The faster you are going the more body lean you will need. However, if you aren’t going ‘that’ fast you will need to lean your bike more than your body which is a fair observation considering it’s a hairpin.

Did you brake mid turn?

You’re talking about cornering slowly. I’m talking about maximum grip and maximum cornering speed in racing. If cornering slowly, do whatever you want.

Depending on the motorbike and surface, you can or can not lean until you scrape your footpegs. All motorbikes don’t have warm slicks and travel on race tracks. There are heavy motorbikes with narrow cold tyres on crappy/wet/dirty tarmac.

In cat 5 you don’t need to do anything differently than riding around town. Watch the pros in high speed descending or pros in crits though - the fastest ones always bend their arms and hang off with their bodies. But of course there’s no need to go full MotoGP style in every corner - it’s not even possible at low speeds.

I kind of regret trying to help people be safer and faster. This is just annoying. I’m out.

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Here is boise twilight that has 4 high speed corners and avg 31mph with all the pro crit riders in the US and not a single one is hanging off their bike moto style

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Take it easy mate. I’m not taking a stab at you. All I said was, in my opinion, OP was body leaning ALOT for the amount of speed he had. Did that cause him to crash? We don’t know.

To me, the biggest difference between motorbikes and push bikes is the weight - a motorbike weighs 3-4x as much as the rider, and pedal bike probably about 10% of the rider. You need to hang a lot of weight off the motorbike to lean it, and to avoid highsiding it. It’s more like sailing, or wind surfing. You don’t need anywhere near as much weight to lean a pedal bike.


It’s called having a difference of opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs.

This forum is great for back and forth dialogue for exactly that. I for one never take anything said here as gospel, always do your own research to verify things.

Certainly no need to be so sensitive that if someone disagrees with you that that you thrown your hands in the air and leave. Be a pretty dull place if that was the case for everyone.

New/unfamiliar tyre - get used to how the tyre behaves before going out and racing on it

It really depends on the rims. There’s a detailed specification for enve wheels on their website but you should start by looking at your rim manufacturer’s suggestions

I’d think you could easily run 75 to 80 psi on clinchers at that weight but it’d be lower if you were running 28s

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That’s a given. For the reason others mention (ratio of rider to vehicule weight), the same amount of body lean is neither needed nor desirable. But look at videos of pros going fast dowhnhill - I can’t find one over-leaning the bike (i.e. the equivalent of angulation in skiing), and I see many dropping knees and elbows inside the turn (which moves the CG inside the turn and allows a more upright bike for the same speed/turn radius). Dropping the upper body to lower the CG (accomplished by bending the elbows) is also common. This said, these are all relatively subtle movements.

Searching for these videos will also show you Froome descending pedaling all-out while sitting on the top bar, which is another topic entirely…

What I typically see is what everyone here, including @pete had advocated which is weight on outside pedal, while pushing down on inside bar. You generally see more extended inside arms, more bent outside arms.

Pushing down on the inside side of the bar forces the bike to lean more than the rider.


A nice selection. You’ll see tons of knee-droppers. Cancellara tends to over-lean in tighter turns (moves his knee inside, but his upper body outside), the others tend to be very balanced except for that knee drop.

Note that there is no debate on the outside leg loading.