True, but thats not the point I was trying to make… Another thing to note is that more expensive isnt always better, these days more expensive doesnt even have to mean lighter weights. There definitely is a bicycle bubble, driven by marketing. Look at the big brand markup vs unbranded china frames? Or how gary fisher marketed the first mountainbikes so people would pay loads more than a top end road bike of the day
1 Like
Apples & oranges…completely different business models. Branded suppliers have much larger overheads that they need to cover.
You are free to buy from the Chinese brand of the month. I personally will not get on one and fling myself down a hill at 40+ mph knowing that that brand simply doesn’t exist anymore.
You must run SRAM then. Yea this Di2 chart doesn’t factor in the extremely heavy 50g battery and approximately 50 more for junctions and wires, but the mechanical also doesn’t factor in cable housings and cables themselves either.
2 Likes
Your logic is flaaaaaaaaaawed. I can’t put enough a’s in there.
If I rolled up the start line of my local crit on my incredible motorbike I wouldn’t be allowed to race. As such, I don’t care about motorbikes so their cost has no meaning to me.
3 Likes
Ok, be blind if you will.
The technology involved (internal combustion engine) and material cost (100s of kgs of material) of a motorbike is greater than in a bicycle therefore its cost should be greater. I do not think it is a flawed logic to point at this.
It is OK if you do not care about motorbikes but it was just an example pointing at the unreal and ridiculous cost of some bicycles.
You should argue why the logic is flawed other than because you do not care about the example.
Engines are made using automation, carbon frames are made using humans. You also don’t see much innovation in engines, yes there are slightly different metals for pistons and such but it’s not like working with carbon. A production engine is cheap to make in the quantities they are made in and often have no human involvement in the assembly process.
Go to an engine builder and ask for a price for a hand built balanced engine with forged internals and the cost can exceed that of a car, don’t ask how I know
Being so familiar with production techniques and processes I am surprised you still justify the price gap.
I’m not justifying it, personally I don’t think the jump is worth it for most people. That’s my opinion and I state it as such, not as fact, nor do I make claims of pricing being crazy or whatever else we want to label it.
With my current finances, I ride Ultegra. If I had more money to spend I’d buy Dura Ace, yes the benefits are slim but they are there and frankly for some people having a nicer ______ can encourage them to use it more.
Would you argue that anyone looking at a 4 door car other than a $18,000 Corolla is also pissing money away because it gets you from A-B just the same as an $80,000Mercedes? Probably not, so why are we doing this with bikes?
2 Likes
By that logic a digital watch should cost more than a mechanical one. The digital watch has more technology so it should cost more right?
That logic is wrong because cost isn’t purely based on the technology. Things like how much it costs to make it; labor, materials, tooling, etc. matter way more on high volume goods than ‘technology’.
The molds used to make carbon bikes have a lifetime. Laying up the carbon is manual, time consuming, and hard to QC. Cooking the carbon takes time in specialized hardware. The carbon and epoxy is relatively expensive. Making it ready after it gets shipped is labor intensive. They take up stupid amounts of floor space in the shop. They have to stock 50+ SKUs for each brand.
Most of that doesn’t apply to motorcycles. They used a ‘solved’ material in steel and aluminum. Small motor production is highly automated. There are maybe a couple colors per model/trim.
They are just different.
2 Likes
I agree that if someone has the money and feels like buying whatever then they should by all means go ahead.
I accept the point that if something turned out to be expensive you might use it more.
What I am discussing is the negligible or non-measurable (I ignore if there is a better word?) impact on every day rides.
I was thinking about this argument that already came up, but I do not buy it. What the hell is Amazon for instance doing in their fulfillment centers. If they are able to handle their volumes bike logistics must be a joke.
Not at all! Because they actually have same purpose and function. Your example would be analogous to steel vs carbon bike discussion.
The motorbike vs bike is more like watch vs atomic clock!
It’s the floor space and wastage that causes a problem. Someone comes in and says I want a 56 with ultegra in red… if you say we don’t have it that’s a lost sale. When next year comes along and you still have the blue 60cm with dura-ace you get to eat 2-3k off it’s MSRP to make it stop taking up your floor space.
1 Like
I don’t think anyone is going to argue against you regarding diminishing returns, the higher you go the more expensive gains get and the smaller they are. It just comes down to perception of value: for me Ultegra does everything I need at a lower cost than Dura Ace with minimal drawbacks (weight mostly) so I stick with Ultegra. Frame wise, he higher modulus frames are stiffer and lighter which DOES affect feel and the ride more than say Ultegra vs DA, so I’m willing to spend more for a higher tier frame and keep running Ultegra. If I had enough in the bank to buy DA and not think twice, I’d buy it even though the value isn’t great, just because it’s satisfying to know you have the best that is available. Right now I just can’t afford to do that
1 Like
Then development of bicycles should go in the direction of having a modular easily built bike, this would be a great solution for manufacturers. Because a single frame is not the most space occupying thing out there.
Uhhhh, ok 
, that actually made me laugh.
I am glad it made your day 
I think the industry had that when lugged carbon frames were a thing, not so great in practice though
They both tell time. The digital watch is superior in every technical way to the mechanical. You can spend orders of magnitude more on a mechanical watch than a perfectly functional, or even incredibly powerful digital watch. Think $300 Apple Watch vs Hyper watches. The Apple Watch is better. The hyper watch is hand designed and hand built by an expert.
They are just different.
1 Like