The other thing is…you need to answer the workout surveys accurately. I just scanned this thread but I’m not sure anyone said that. If it was easy, (even if you got bored) then mark it easy. I personally find 65% way too easy, more like recovery.
So make sure you answer on the difficulty, and don’t try to game the system, just be honest.
@theflyingduttman I agree w what @Helvellyn said in the first reply. I’d just add: Recommend Smith -2 for dialing in your FTP. If you know what it should feel like, this WO is perfect for that! 
Thanks Chris. Yep I’ve got that one marked.
I’ll give some of the SS/Threshold stuff a go when I feel I can.
Thanks again
I’d say, given you have prior experience, use that to guide you to roughly where your FTP should be set. If you’re finding Endurance and Tempo too easy (at reasonable durations) then just bump it up manually.
You’ve had a big drop from your old FTP and in my experience TR is a bit conservative in increasing you back up. My FTP typically drops 15-20% once I stop road racing each winter (similar to your drop from illness), but then after ~10 weeks concerted pre season I’m pretty much back where I was if I’m healthy. However, TR’s AI FTP has only ever bumped my FTP by 3.4% or less even if I go and do some big efforts (usually it’s nearer 2.5%) so it appears to think I can’t get back to my previous level for around 6 months.
If your rides feel too easy, just bump your FTP up a touch.
Thank you. that’s a good plan.
I do have an AI FTP adjustment coming up next Monday. I’ll let that do it stuff and then see how it feels, then as you say, I’ll manually bump myself up!
He can’t hold SS or Threshold at all and you’re recommending he bump his FTP UP because he finds easy rides easy?
@theflyingduttman I don’t want to harass you and push too much, buddy! But as some others have hinted at; 99% chance your FTP is set too high.
You should be able to load up Smith -2 on any day, even the next day after a training WO you ranked as Hard or Very Hard, and complete it. If you can’t, your FTP is set too high.
Manually dial your FTP down 2 - 10%, and hammer Smith -2 again the next day. Even better to catch the mistake while it’s happening; during the first round of Smith -2: If an interval gets too hard and you know it’s unsustainable, use the difficulty slider to dial it back until it is sustainable, and you know you could hold it [but be absolutely maxxxed out] for 20 - 50 mins.
Boom, FTP. Set it and forget it! And continue on w your training in peace!
EDIT TO ADD: Dialing up your FTP, or leaving it where it is… I’m not a TR scientist, so can’t say “one hundred percent sure”, but ya… I, and others in this thread, are pretty confident that would be a recipe for disaster, and over cooking yourself time after time after time, and chasing a fake number alllllllll the way down a death spiral of over-training. Many of us have been there. NOT a fun time!
Keep in mind; dialing it back 2 - 10%, and continuing to smash your WOs, it’s going to naturally increase; you’re gonna get stronger. You’re not setting it back 2-10%, and it will stay there for the next 1 - 6 mo!!
No, it is not correct
No. What I said was that given his “previous experience”, if his current rides are “too easy at reasonable durations” then bump it up because AI FTP doesn’t seem to be good at dealing with people who’s FTP ramps back up quickly.
His ability (or not) to do SS or threshold intervals doesn’t have any bearing since he’s training in lower zones.
Man this thread is about to explode with hot takes.
Look, if you don’t like the ai ftp, do a ramp test (instead of smith -2 with 40 minutes at threshold) Use the number it gives you. Whether it’s accurate or not it is a number delivered to you from within the system. The TR ecosystem is a closed system, if you mess with the system you can’t expect good results.
Do the test, do the workouts, rate the efforts, be honest. It will take time (with Power levels it always does) to get you properly integrated. If you know for a fact a workout is too easy, then select an alternate and then be honest in your assessment after the workout. I would never accept a 65% endurance workout, it’s frankly unacceptable. 
But you have to decide what is acceptable to you.
If on the other hand what you want is an assessment of what you can do for 40 minutes (like a pacing strategy). Do smith -2.
that’s my hot take.
I’m kind of amazed at how quiet it’s been 
Endurance workouts should feel 3-4 out of 10 RPE, sweet spot should feel 7-8 out of 10 RPE. If that’s not the case, you may want to do a longer FTP test. Especially if you feel comfortable with VO2 work currently.
Personally, letting go of FTP as a measure of my wealth as a cyclist has freed me to actually train properly. Falling into the gamification trap of FTP was the worst thing I ever did for my progression.
Hi Chris,
I would absolutely agree with you 100% and my experience on TR would back that up.
It’s just at the moment I can’t do those full on efforts.
I can however complete the Endurance/Tempo levels of the equivalent FTP that I’ve got set.
I know, at this level (End/Temp), it’s not exact… but I’m trying to get my endurance/tempo level correct and the only way I can think of doing that is by changing the FTP
I keep reading this sentiment on this forum and I just don’t get it. If I need to do a 4 hour zone 2 ride at 70% (Endurance in TR zones) it’s not easy.
Sorry to ask you that, but I still didn’t get it.
Why can’t you do those efforts? Is it too hard, or do you have another barrier?
They mean interval rather than workout - like a 15 minute interval:
endurance - should be pretty easy
tempo - 5/10 - for 15 minutes you’ll feel like you could do it all day
sweet spot - 6/7 out of 10 - it shouldn’t be that hard … for 15 minutes*
ftp - 7/8 out of 10 - very achievable … for 15 minutes*
*anyone that says they suffer during 10-15 sweet spot or FTP intervals has an unrealistic one hour power number. And the first interval should be easy. Maybe you start struggling by the 3rd or 4th.
Yeah, you are asking the impossible.
Easy solution:
If you feel that your tempo efforts are too easy, then just do them a bit harder. Still too easy? Go up a notch.
Another easy solution: do all your efforts by RPE
Beyond that we can’t help you.
Third easy solution: don’t do structured training. Just ride. Toss in some efforts if your legs feel good.
Oh right, I’d never heard of it as being a ~15minute section of a workout. If a coach or training plan asks me for my RPEafter a workout then I’m thinking about the whole thing, so a ride at 70% of FTP can score highly.
On your second point, I’d only agree once the rider has done a short period of training TTE at ~threshold powers. If you’ve never tried to ride at your FTP in a steady 15 minute interval then it’s not straightforward. But after a handful of workouts it should become much more comfortable.
@therealemm LOL, I dig what you said, dude! Legit, and I do agree w most of what you said. Esp about TR being a closed system, and working within that system to dial it in. 100%.
Just on the ramp test, it’s good… for some riders.
The thing is, the ramp only gets good results for certain riders; those who perform quite well at >100% FTP efforts, especially in the 120 - 180% FTP range. These riders’ max 5 min, 2 min, 1 min, 30 s, 10 s power are much higher relative to their FTP.
My 10 and 5 are ooookay, but not really, they suck pretty bad, and my 2, 1, 30 s, etc are absolute garbage. So the ramp will always nail my FTP super low, and then my WOs are all garbage.
I’m a TT rider / soloist / Threshold rider, in the 45 - 240 min range. So something like Smith -2 really dials it in perfectly for riders like me.
I mean, TR is a pretty incredible system and it can do a lot of things, but some responsibility is on us! 
We have to know at least a bit about ourselves to help the system out a bit!
EDIT TO ADD: The big reason I leaned on Smith -2 for this dude, not the ramp, is that it seems pretty obvious he’s got it set too high, for now. So IMO, doesn’t make a ton of sense for him to mash his face into a ramp test. Smith -2 will prove the point just as well; FTP is too high, with much less discomfort, and would even give him the opportunity to hold it for a while, and play w the difficulty +/- for a bit…
Thought that maybe made sense? Legit question; unsure.
+1. You can’t, or don’t want to? Mentally aren’t ready? What did you try that you failed?
I’m really quite perplexed by this. It’s one thing to have a low TTE or a low threshold, but not being able to approach threshold (even an overestimated threshold) at all for any period of time, absent some medical condition, doesn’t make sense to me.