Somehow I was one of the first entrants into the beta. I just finished four weeks plus a rest week and I think I’m going to take a pause on AT for a bit. It was just too hard. Or the progression was too aggressive. Here’s a stretch workout. Oh, you finished it? Everything is this intensity now.
Within a couple of weeks, every workout except my Wednesday 0.76 IF hour was a 0.85 to 0.9x IF for 90-120 minutes. I was absolutely smoked by the time I got to my rest week. I did the rest week almost exactly as prescribed except for combining two weekdays into a single ride and crashed and burned in my ramp test the first week back. I don’t think I truly lost 17 watts, especially still coming back from a nasty case of COVID in October that knocked me down ~50 watts by the time I could train again. I think my legs were still too tired from the build.
I have been on TR since 2013 or 2014 and a very dedicated indoor rider during that entire time. I started to dread workouts and needed quite the combo of caffeine and stimulating media to survive the 4-5 sets of 15-20 minutes at threshold. My A event is in 9 weeks and I think I’m going to handpick my workouts until then. I don’t need all of the VO2 and threshold for a 5 day stage event that will mostly be about survival.
Not sure we can help (may need TR proper to step in), but out of curiosity… what were your survey responses for those workouts you found very challenging, but completed?
Presumably, choosing 4 or 5 for that type of effort should shift AT into a mode where it sees you having some trouble, and may then reduce pending workout levels in attempt to align better with your actual abilities.
My experience has been different, definitely not too hard, and in doing SSB1 HV (shameless plug here’s a playlist of my vlogs for this https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfTajZyojY38uTTptWgbB369-yXQuugZV) I wasn’t ever recommended anything that is stretch and kept progressing gradually as I kept marking my workouts as moderate. I imagine if I did something like all out or struggled with workouts AT would have scaled back my progression. Yes AT kind of sets your workouts to the hardest level you’ve achieved, but I would think if it’s indicated that you’re struggling it would reduce the recommended levels.
I’m forwarding your feedback to the AT team- this is not how we want it to work! For me it’s been the exact opposite- a more sustainable progression than ever before, and since starting AT I’ve not failed a single workout. However, there’s certainly room for fine-tuning in how it ramps you from week to week, so this is very valuable and important feedback.
Raymond +7 is VO2max 8.1, 4x8 at 108% with 5-minute recoveries. Elephants +4 is VO2max 8.4, 6x6 at 108% with 3-minute recoveries. Red Lake +8 is VO2max 7.2, 5x6 at 108% with 5-minute recoveries, so keeping the intensity but shortening the interval and giving yourself more time to get ready for the next one.
It’s not so much “bridging the gap” as stepping back a bit to let you get the work done without driving yourself into the ground.
Thanks @ellotheth for your considered thoughts. Red Lake +8 was actually the vo2max workout that preceded the Raymond +7 one the week prior. My thoughts on that workout were:
Looks like I might just repeat that this week to see how I go. Thanks again
Red Lake +6 could be another option, but if 4x8 was too rough I don’t know that 5x7 is much of an improvement. You could also take a look at the workouts classified as Threshold that are basically the same but at 105% instead of 108%.
I know the notes at the top mention that manual FTP changes are not like a ramp Test but I also noticed my levels changed a lot from the 20 minute test today. (I am assuming this is known but just trying to help ) Test was an increase of 8 Watts from previous if that changes anything
Typically hard or very hard. “All out” would be reserved for a race or ramp test. My last ramp test I couldn’t even get close to all out. My legs just stopped moving about 8-9 beats shy of max HR which I almost always hit during a ramp.
That’s awesome. I was in build, pre-specialty which may have made a difference.
Maybe I’m just a lopsided rider. My sweet spot progression was 9.5 or 9.6, but threshold and VO2 were in the low 5 to mid 6 range. It was mostly VO2 and threshold work prescribed. I tended to take my Sunday Sweet spot outdoors for a longer endurance ride whenever weather allowed.
This looks like intended behavior- your FTP increased, so your levels adjusted to make your upcoming workouts at a higher workload more comfortably achievable.
Just my personal opinion, but for an 8w increase on an FTP of over 300 (basically within a 2% error margin), that’s too big a change for the some of those levels. Doesn’t make a lot of sense that Endurance actually increased too.
That’s just based on looking at the workouts you’d be doing at those levels. Across the board they’d actually have you doing lower wattage on average than pre-test. I can only assume this is done so you’re starting off easier with the expectation that you’re ramping up again?
Edit - On re-reading that sounds like I’m saying it’s broken. That’s not quite it, just trying to understand if it’s intentionally making it easier to give more headroom to build up again into (though the endurance level is still confusing).
Failed a VO2max session earlier and now it wants to adapt basically everything, even though I’ve shown no indication that I’m likely to struggle with Sweet Spot / Threshold. Frustrating.
I’ve been meaning to make a post asking about what TR really does when reviewing the survey responses, but my quick take is the following. This is far from complete and a TOTAL guess on my part, but the survey responses would likely need to be relative to the difficulty of the workout, relative to the PL you have for that Level, at the start of the workout.
3 Hard
Expected result for workouts in the Productive range of your starting PL. This might mean a minimal increase in PL upon successful completion.
Not desired result for workouts in the Achievable range of your starting PL. This might mean a notable decrease in PL upon successful completion.
4 Very Hard
Expected result for workouts in the Stretch range of your starting PL. This might mean a notable increase in PL upon successful completion.
Not desired result for workouts in the Productive range of your starting PL. This might mean a notable decrease in PL upon successful completion.
If you are scraping by, using hacks or finishing workouts with back pedals or other bails, I think at least a 4 is right, and maybe even a 5 if you are really having major trouble. 4’s may result in a drop of your PL, but not necessarily if you are doing workouts in the Stretch or Breakthrough for your current level.
I am sure it’s all more complicated than that, but I have looked at it this way.
Ok I resign
