Unfortunately The Cog was removed from the forum, I believe , some time ago.
You should start a new topic.
I probably knew that but have forgotten .
@AJS914 I am not really interested in someone solving my training error but more in a general view of what is wrong with that approach. No one can know my whole life and things that might be wrong. But if there is more people with the same experience it is either the same training error or this approach doesn’t work very well (this = minimal day to day variance of training time).
I’m no expert so I asked ChatGpt.
I hope this opens ok.https://chatgpt.com/c/66daab9e-742c-8013-a8e9-b5aa47fdda7e
Hi, resurrecting this as I’d be interested in some details around the block to lift power at that hr.
How many sessions per week do you dedicate to this z2/tempo riding and do you also have some intensity sessions during that block?
Do you extend this type of training over multible blocks even?
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I usually do 2 sessions of tempo a week and one weekend group ride around 4hrs. The other days are z2 or z1 depending on how I feel. Typically it will start with 2-3 20 min intervals and I will extend those each or every other week or to 30mins, 40, etc… assuming I’m feeling good.
I use HR to determine the fitness and bump up the power. Once I have a steady HR for a 60min interval, I know it’s safe to rinse, and repeat the intervals although at a slightly higher power.
Do that for a few months and add in a couple weeks of 2x 5x5’s or similar at 110-120% and you will be flying.
The problem with this type of training is that it’s boring and can usually only be done on a trainer and alone. You want to keep the environment consistent if you’re watching HR.
If don’t follow Brandon McNulty on strava, I recommend you follow him and check out his current training. It’s very similar!
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My Zone 2 power now is almost 280W, not that I can hold 280W for 3 hours but it is the top of the zone 2 (LT1)
#Zone2training improvement is by moving LT1 to be very close to LT2, by training around LT1. With saying like this, it is very simple to understand.
What are these graphs telling us and how do you know lt1 is 280
How does this show your lt1 being 280w? I am very sceptical that it is accurate if you can’t do it for 3hr.
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Agree, being unable to ride Z2 for more than 3 hour is red flag.
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From the pics above it has breathing rate (in Thai language) which is corresponding to zone and around this point from the training I can notice this is zone 2 for me)
Also I have data from hospital testing (my Fat Max is in the blue line which end around 158 bpm and from the last test is 292W - I tested Vo2max 6 times already in 10 years) also I tested my lactate and at around 230W my lactate is 0.8 mmol (25 and 29 Dec)
Not necessarily, it depends on what you mean by not being able to ride z2, if there is significant decoupling of HR::PWR it can indicate that the cardiovascular system just needs more time to catch back up after time off the bike.
If we are talking about fatigue it can be a result of poor fueling, hydration, not being used to riding the trainer, not having the right gear ratios spinning out when riding out of saddle, etc.
There is a lot that can cause failure that this approach is fairly muddied.
Gotta remember upper Z2 for 3h straight on the trainer you have professional riders being paid millions to ride their bike that cannot do that because it’s just too uncomfortable of an experience.
Re: ISM model, Love how this topic is still ongoing, I think while his role in the specific implementation of pogacar’s training regimen was likely overstated (like on GCN) his role in the scientific literature in his paper “Assessment of metabolic flexibility by means of measuring blood lactate” really established some remarkable results, using lactate during steady state aerobic exercise as a window into metabolic heath has far reaching impact on healing the metabolically unwell, all they really need to aim to do is improve their Z2 riding ability and they can guarantee an improvement in metabolic health which we already know can reverse disease like prediabetes or metabolic syndrome-like conditions.
Additionally ISM correctly identified lactate as a signaling molecule that acts on the same substrate as the fatty acids, this is incredibly important in sports science because finding previously unrecognized signaling roles of well described metabolites is exactly where the next big breakthrough (HO1/CO system and the signaling role of CO) came from.
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I don’t think they mentioned it was on a trainer. It would certainly be mentally tiring on a trainer. But outdoors any reasonably trained rider should be able to easily ride more than 3 hours of upper Z2.
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Untill you are so fit that your upper Z2 becomes something crazy like 325+W. Then doing that for long periods of time is just a very big energetic effort anyway.
Luckily that’s the least of my worries 
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Exactly, what applies to pros is somewhat related to the large metabolic cost at their power outputs. At the more modest Z2 power outputs of the rest of us…
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And mine
Thanks again for all your input. I’d have a follow-up question regarding HR. How do you adjust power levels if HR is either too low/high vis a vis its standard levels due to fatigue/freshness?
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As long as you’re not increasing your load too much or sick, sleeping poorly, eating bad, etc… your heart rate should be pretty consistent. Instead of shooting for a specific HR. I always have a window to operate within (155-165ish). That’s a tempo HR for me, I have steady breathing and the load is hard but tolerable.
I just started this type of training again. Because it’s XC race season and I’m racing at least 2 times a month. Because of this, I’m only doing one interval workout a week to avoid overtraining. 3 weeks ago I did 3x20 at 270ish to get a feel on what my fitness is currently. I noticed my HR was around 160ish avg. last week I did 3x30 at 280ish and my HR was also around 160 avg and yesterday I did 2x45 at 280 and my avg HR was around 155. This tells me that I’m adjusting to the long loads well and I’m going to push out 280w to 2hrs time in zone next week before raising power and going back to shorter intervals ie… 3x20, 2x30, 3x30, etc…
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Easily? I don’t know that? If Z2 boundarie is LT1? Not that easy going 3h around LT1 I think?
Try it, the boundary of your Z2 / Z3 should be well within your comfort zone for 3 hours. The boundary of Z3/Z4 a different game, but the lower one shouldn’t trouble you for that duration unless you lack endurance.
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