How long until "red/yellow" learns my typical training stress?

TrainerRoad Software
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I restarted TR in mid-Dec and so far, it has me in near constant “yellow” and dumps my workouts for 30-min endurance/recovery rides at least 1x/week, sometime even more. It’s getting frustrating. I programmed the plan low-volume, masters, thinking that would leave plenty of space for cross-training - I lift 4x week, using an upper/lower split and try to get into the pool for a relaxed swim on the mornings I don’t lift. Do I need to set the program parameters differently?

Today is a good example - until I swam this morning, it had me doing a 90 min VO2 session this afternoon. After my swim synced, it’s not scheduling a 45 min recovery ride. This as a 20 min easy swim - it should have negligible impact on an afternoon workout. I feel fine, not fatigued, but now that TR has auto-adjusted, I have no idea what workout was planned (leaving me to pick a V02 workout at random). Workouts over the past 4 days… 5k run on Sat, 2.5 hour endurance ride Sunday, short gym session Sunday PM (some legs, but mostly shoulders and core), Monday weights in AM (upper body), and a ~20 min swim this morning. Why am I in yellow?

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I could be wrong but I think it depends on 6 week average acute/chronic workload.

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Can you share screenshots of your last four weeks from the calendar?

And six week avg bike tss?

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Here’s the calendar. Last 6-week TSS - don’t see that anywhere? Had covid or flu in early Dec, so it’s not typical anyway. The last four weeks have been fairly typical for the past 6 months - slight ramp up in bike intensity and volume, but nothing crazy. Looks like it’s just stuck scheduling ridiculously low TSS weeks and “panicking” any time I go over?

Looking at the calendar screenshots…

I did 1 hour endurance on 12/21 (day before screeshot), 1 hour fairly easy on 12/22, and got flagged yellow for Tuesday (so did endurance instead of VO2) and still ended up red on Wed despite three relatively easy days in a row.

Yellow on 12/28 - after a 3 mile easy run and a 90 min endurance ride. So another easy endurance ride on the 28, and it’s still yellow on the 29 and 30.

Then, the one that really confuses me… 2:20 endurance on 1/4, red on 1/5 (seems overly cautious, but ok), but still yellow on 1/6? 1 hour V02 on 1/7 and yellow for two more days.

Same pattern again this weekend - yellow after the endurance ride (ok), clear on 1/13 until I di a 20 min swim that kicked it back to yellow (it was clear prior to the swim - why is an easy swim with no TSS causing me to go yellow?).

TSS is higher than the plan specifies, but it’s planning <200 per week - that’s not an uncommon weekend ride on it’s own!

Based on “vibes”, the red days are all legit, but about half the yellow days are “WTF?” I tried rebuilding the plan a few times to break the cycle, but it hasn’t changed anything.

Is there a way to turn off the auto-workout switching? That way, if I feel good despite the yellow, I can stick to the plan? It’s the auto-swap that’s driving me insane - I’d like to at least try some of those “yellow day” workouts.

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First off, you can ignore fatigue management, so yellow or red you don’t have to accept the adaptations. Just say no.

Secondly…18 sets taken to failure? I’d say you’re telling the app that you are wrecking yourself lifting. Either you are, or you need to edit those strength workouts to only include the sets you failed on. I record zero sets because I never lift to failure.

Lastly your ftp may be too low, but I doubt that is the cause since your workouts are so easy when it comes to the bike.

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I have just learned to ignore it. I look more at my HRV and my resting HR. I learned this by doing the Garmin Cycling Coaching. It had me do a good workout(sprints or surges) on red days and it had me doing long Z2 rides(4hrs) on Yellow days. All in all I was very happy with the progress I made with the free Garmin Coaching. I never bothered to do the rides indoor during that time. I did them all outside. I think the problem is with TR and the lifting in my case is that it says to put just the number of sets you go to failure. I don’t really go to failure as I always have RIR on lifts. So I just put one 1 set to failure for every exercise I do for a body part.

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TR’s article on tracking strength training says to include hard sets with a couple of reps in reserve:
“These tracked sets should be challenging, not including warm up, with each working set going to failure or within 1-2 reps of failure.”

https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/25384601883547-How-to-Add-Working-Sets-to-your-Strength-Training

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It’s adapting the workouts without an adaptation prompt… that’s what’s driving me nuts.

As for sets in the weight room, I’m recording the number of working sets, which are typically 0-2 RIR, depending on the lift. A typical upper day might be: bench, pull-ups, OHP, cable low row, end with superset of cable curls and tricep pushdowns - with 3-4 workings sets for each. Bench and OHP are usually 2-3 RIR, everything else would be 0-2 RIR. To most people, those are all work set and looks like that’s what the TR user guide says as well…

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And possibly answering my own question…

It appears the “web” interface has settings available that are not exposed in the iOS app. One of which is “Automatically Accept Adaptations”. Not sure why they’d hide 2 out of 3 related settings…

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There is a setting on your account for automatically accepting adaptations. Yours is probably turned on.

I just turned mine on the other day…and now I need to turn it off :rofl:

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Try removing all the working sets in a week and see what happens in fatigue management, then put them back if you want.

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There is something “wrong” with your outside endurance workouts also. You’re getting between 50 and 100% more TSS than you should, after accounting for increased duration. You’re either doing a lot of sprinting/bursts or there is something wrong with the FTP-setting when you train outside.

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Hey @AlistairSH :slight_smile:

I’d have to agree with @JoeX here that your strength training sessions may be causing most of your Yellow/Red Days.

@nialljf posted our support article already on how to properly track your working sets, so make sure to give that a look :slight_smile:

It also looks like you’ve disabled auto-adaptations from your settings, so you can decline adaptations as you see fit.

Lastly, it looks like your Swim and Runs are happening on Tuesday/Sunday’s, which is good. I would just make sure to keep your bike training days as consistent as possible and not shuffling days around every week so that there is a consistent pattern of recovery vs. training.

If any changes, I would recommend, would be to pair your strength training days with your interval bike days and have something like this:

Monday: Swim
Tuesday: Interval Workout + Strength Training (after, so you don’t go into your intervals fatigued).
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Interval Workout + Strength Training (after, so you don’t go into your intervals fatigued).
Friday: OFF
Saturday: Endurance Workout
Sunday: Run

I think something like the above can allow you to have 2 proper recovery days instead of just one.

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i agree with this. Something is way off if you’re getting 85 TSS on Townsend-1 and 65 TSS on Pettit-1. It seems you’re heavily over achieving in your easy rides, which is skewing the plan/fatigue management

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Thanks for the detailed response! Super helpful.

I was off work for the holidays those two weeks, so the schedule was more erratic than normal. I’m pretty well locked into intervals on Tues/Thursday, long ride Sat (though with winter, I’ll move it to Sunday if that lets me get outside). I think one or two of the Thurs intervals ended up on Friday because of the auto adaptation - I wanted to get in the work, so manually re-added it the next day.

I’m enjoying the lifting right now, even if it’s likely “too much” and limiting the cycling improvements. I hadn’t been in the gym much for years, but a broken femur in Dec 2024 sort of forced me back (since I could run, cycle, or kick in the pool). Plus, it lets me workout with my wife. Those set counts are accurate - but a lot of the sets to near failure are shoulder work (history of injury) or other accessory lifts - I’m not doing 16 sets of dead lifts or squats (that would be crazy).

Now that I’ve I found the “auto accept” switch, I think I’m good.

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Not sure what to say about those - the workout is calling for <130 watts for 2-3 hours. If I’m outdoors, that’s basically impossible due to terrain. I guess I could ride my mountain bike everywhere. And I’m used to weekend rides in the 200+ TSS range. I’m just shit at intervals. The last three years have just been rough - between unusual work chaos, family drama, and a major injury, it’s been a lot of very casual JRA and precious little training.

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Semi-related to your situation - I find it takes about three weeks for the system to adjust after a (medium duration) break

Historically, I’m a very high volumn trainer - but over the last 2-3 years I’ve been travelling without the bike rather extensively - 3-5 weeks at a time. After these breaks I typically ride the yellow with my typical volume, but lower intensity, for 3ish weeks until I stop getting yellow days and then introduce higher (above sweet spot) intensity

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I would make those solo rides and not associate them with a TR workout

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Makes sense, I was trying (and failing) to do the workouts. I’ll just match the ride length at whatever intensity feels right for those endurance rides.

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Looking more at your outdoor workouts. Are they done without a power meter? It still seems to me that those are being treated by the system as harder than how they feel to you. Doing 170 TSS in 2 hours and 20 and rating it moderate just doesn’t add up.