High HR with relatively low/no leg burn

Training
23

If you want to use HR as a metric (primary, secondary, whatever), HR max is not going to be the best way to go anyway…as evidenced by all the comments above…you never really know if what you think is your max is the true maximum you are capable of. And, any zone estimates based off max HR aren’t worth a whole lot, depending on your fitness, muscle fiber typed, etc.

eta: The HR maxes I’ve recorded (once or twice a year) were always in the summer in Florida (hot and humid), in the 2nd half of a 2+ hour ride on sandy mtb trails, going up a steep, steep climb of a minute plus…and it’s increased a beat about every other year (presumably the HRmax hasn’t increased, rather I’ve gotten fit enough to reach a little higher bpm before breathing or muscles said back off). And I’m 54, so if I was hitting true max each time, it should be going down as I age, not up.

If you want an HR benchmark, do a LTHR (lactate threshold HR, it’s the HR “equivalent” to FTP), and find out at what approximate heart rate you currently stop sufficiently clearing the lactate. With LTHR you can approximate your top of z2 and see how that feels during endurance work and tweak it from there. Your HR will vary based on nutrition, fatigue, temperature, stress, etc.

Maybe your background of lifting has raised your ability to clear/use the lactate. My n=1 is that I know when I’m past my LTHR for more than a minute or so, because I feel the burn. Don’t have that issue below my LTHR. This is why I suspect your max HR could be low, and it doesn’t make much sense to me that your ftp would be overestimated if you’re able to ride at the estimated ftp, while not being HR limited (they both can be tested with a 20-min test with reduction of 5%, there are other tests, as well, obviously). Again, n=1, I didn’t develop good base fitness for over 5 years of mostly unstructured 4-6 hr/wk riding (and didn’t know it until I finally focused on that last year), and I got to where I could hold a pretty high HR for longish rides (I ride mtb). But, I knew when I was above LTHR, whether or not it was hot, or I was fatigued, or I had eaten or slept enough.

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24

So I did Truchas -1 today, very similar to Eichorn +2 with a few watts less but longer intervals, same IF but a bit higher TSS overall.
I improved everything a little bit - better nutrition and hydration, more powerful fan and less stress, and it all resulted in some serious improvement - I started first interval at 80% of max HR, finished the last at 86%, which perfectly falls into SS range. And I feel much better too! marked it as Moderate RPE. Never thought small things would make such a huge difference.
Thanks everyone who talked me out of unnecessary change of FTP. It was definitely not ‘too high’

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25

^^^ this.

In my experience HR+rpe based training just works, and power is a little better. Nowadays I use all 3 (power, HR, rpe).

It feels like gaslighting when I read comments to ignore HR and just use power.

From the beginning 7 years ago, I learned to ride 30+ minutes at threshold. Then used the Friel (The Cyclists Training Bible) protocol and did a 30 minute test to estimate LTHR. Refined a little over the first year as it appeared to increase from around 156bpm to 160-162bpm. Learned how to “surf around threshold” for longer than 30 minutes.

That LTHR gave me highly productive workouts at threshold, sweet spot, tempo, and endurance. Above threshold was always controlled or full-gas or all-out/max-effort.

Strong agreement and @vmetl my recommendation is same, if you want good HR zones for work at or under threshold, estimate your LTHR using a long test like Friel or Moore.

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26

I agree. It is very useful to know your LTHR, and how your HR responds to power and feeling. Learning how your HR responds differently when you are fatigued, or fresh, or “normal” is a very useful tool in planning your training, or making adjustments to your plan. I do this all the time, and if I didn’t I am 100% certain that I would not be at my level. I understand completely that some people are not that interested in training theory, and just want to train and follow some set program, but learning to know your own body is pretty essential if you want to succeed or reach your goals in endurance sports. Even a personalised training program by a coach needs to be adjusted as you go if you want to ensure the best outcome.

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