Help Needed, Cornering & Turning Tips

+1 to this. That’s something I’m still working on for both road and MTB. It feels safer to use more rear brake, but you just can slow down as fast.

Under these conditions, i really focus on getting all my braking done before the corner. Nothing more scary than finding you have to brake mid turn on a fast downhill when the road surface is slick.

I realize instructing what NOT to do is not as constructive as what to do but, just in case this is you…

Every once in a while I see someone who, for whatever reason, feels the need to lead/lean into the turn with their head and shoulders. This changes CG, moves hips so that the body is not “square” over the bike.

Also, many people seem to like to drop the knee like they are moto GP superstar guy. It doesn’t do anything to make you corner better on a bicycle.

  • Counterpoint (and directly from the AACC Episode 207 last week), they say that a slight turn of the waist/hips into the direction of the corner is beneficial. As a result of that twist, the knee tends to lean towards the inside as well. They aren’t advocating the main knee drag approach, but saying that a dip inside is likely a side effect of the waist/hip twist.
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I stick my knee out when cornering, not hanging off and down, just out but also to give myself a little more room to prevent that one rider that will try to go on the inside.

Well, not an expert for sure, but two rules that helped me out a ton.

Rule #1: Keep your outside foot at the bottom of the pedal stroke through the turn. Concentrate on keeping weight on that foot.

Rule #2: Don’t lean with the bike. The angle your torso makes with the ground should be greater than the angle your bike frame makes with the ground. Your bike leans more than your torso…not the same. This moves your center of gravity more over the contact patch of your tires and steers the bike through a shorter radius of curvature.

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I posted this in another thread but it would be good here too.

Here is a great podcast to learn proper technique for cornering. Although it is about motorcycles the same principles apply to bikes. He’s coached people at the world level of motorcycle racing and domestic.

The best and basic advice is in the first 25 or so episodes.

http://khcoaching.com/podcasts/

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Sorry, not read the thread, but I’d advise riding with people that are better at cornering than you. Ask one of your clubmates to spend a bit of time helping you get more confident.

In terms of drills, get a look at the Speed Skills sessions in the Cyclist’s Training Bible by Joe Friel. Some of the sessions you need a buddy, but can be fun.

Just published, and specifically gravel based with a focus on descending, but JOM does a good job of hitting on some relevant points for cornering.

And here is the obligatory google search result for videos on the topic:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+cornering&rlz=1C1CAFA_enUS700US700&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCi9zonvPiAhVNMqwKHR7lCX8Q_AUIEigD&biw=1920&bih=1057

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That’s more what I meant. Obviously you lean a little, twist a little, lower the knee a little etc…a video is worth a million words. Here is what I meant is bad technique with the head/shoulders/twisting/leaning. Remi Cavagna during the descent stage 3 ToC 2019:

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Knee/head/body leans into the corner to move the center of gravity inwards so you don’t have to lean your bike as much - more traction! Some people are afraid of being close to the asphalt with their bodies when cornering so they twist their body and lean the bike while maintaining an upright body (typical newbie sign). Straight, locked arms and a straight back are also newbie signs.
Dragging knees is of course only applicable on superbikes, mostly on track, where you want to feel where the limit is so you don’t lean so much that you hit your pegs and slide off.

Here’s a video on trail braking: Why You Need to Be Trail Braking | Motorcycle Trail Braking Explained - YouTube

There are videos about counter steering as well, but I can summarize it quickly:

  • To turn a bike at speed you need to lean it.
  • To lean it to the left and turn left, you need to twist the bars to the right.
  • To straighten the bike, you need to twist the bars into the corner.
  • To lean and turn more, you twist more out of the corner.

At 200 km/h, 250 kg, you need to apply a lot of force to make the damn thing lean and turn. You twist as hell towards the right to lean and turn left. On a bicycle, this is mostly done sub-consciously, but as speeds get higher with less margins, it should be done consciously for better control and quicker steering.

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Cycling+cornering

Find a descent, and roll down, no pedalling, plant the outside foot into the pedal. This way you can set yourself up for a corner. When you become comfortable, start pedalling, Break down descending into chunks and join them together. Rolling down, no breaking, then add pedalling, and breaking.

Most people doing road bike cornering videos aren’t good at cornering.

I don’t understand this at all. How can you turn the handlebars to the right, in order to turn left?

Because bikes have rounded tyres and turn at speed by being leaned over. Cars are different.

When turning the bars to the right, you “fall”/lean to the left.
Most people do this sub-consciously and refer to their hips, hands pushing, feet weighting or whatever. All those movements barely do anything as long as the bars aren’t twisted.

There are youtube videos that demonstrate counter steering in slow motion. Or try it yourself next time you’re on two wheels.

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It is about counter steering:

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Interesting! Can’t wait to try it out on the road. I actually pulled up in somebody’s garden a few weeks back, being unable to follow the better rider I was with around a bend. :hushed::flushed:

Lucky the garden was there and not a wall.

@hugo1 is right about counter steering. I too have lots of track time on superbikes. However, due to the weight and speed differences of a bicycle vs a moto on a track, it’s not quite as obvious. Actually, most people don’t even notice it. When turning left, you actually push the left handle bar forward causing the bike to drop/lean left and vice-versa. You are not “turning” the handlebars. Leaning or shifting weight can turn a bicycle, but will not turn a moto, especially at speed.

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Holy crap, I’ve been focusing on trying to turn the handlebars into the direction I’m turning… This could explain a lot.

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That’s how I learnt steering, by pushing the left handlebar when wanting to lean left. However, you can of course apply more force if needed if simultaneously pulling the right - twisting/turning the handlebars. Or when having a snack with your left hand and wanting to lean left, just pull with the right.