I think if one is sore for 3-4 days then you did way too much. I know, it’s easy to do … especially when you first start.
The hard part is going to the gym, doing 1 or 2 sets (which may feel like almost nothing) so that you can recover in 24 hours.
That would be my advice to the OP - only do in the gym what you can recover from in 24 hours or so.
One thing I was doing back when I was lifting a lot, I would work one area a day, and spread it our for the week, and did remember doing legs, but not riding the next day, I left legs to the pre-recovery so I had at least 24ish hours before I rode again. There were a few times when someone would call ‘Come on and ride! Everyone’s here!’, and sometimes I’d go, but getting dropped was on the menu. Lately, it’s ironic that after buying a great weight machine, I tore a tendon in one elbow and now can’t. I miss it too… These chicken wings aren’t as strong as they used to be.
FWIW, I do “heavy” loading for bone density and overall health reasons as part of my routine. It’s once per week. My PT recommended 5x5 at 65-75% of 5 (FIVE) rep max for that purpose on my front squat and trapbar deads. I would take that to mean that you really don’t have to be loading all that heavy to achieve bone density maintenance. I also do box jumps and depth drops on the compound lift days for power development and impact training.
I do quite a lot of kettlebell (4-5 days per week) and isometric (daily) work at home for stability and strength as well. The compound lifts and plyo are just 1x per week for me at the moment. (FTR, I am not riding much right now at all).
If you’re cycling for overall wellness, you don’t need a ton of volume. Probably 2x 1hr rides and 1x 2hr ride would be enough, and let one of those rides include some intensity.
There are some studies regarding recovery rate in fast and slow twitch muscle fibers that can be interesting to look in to. One I have found to often be referenced is this.
This is a very good point but for us overachievers so difficult to follow… I think it is worth considering during intense sessions on the bike as well.
I’ve tried everything under the sun (male, 40s), but when incorporating deadlifts and squats and lunges it unquestionably impacts my on-the-bike performance - even for endurance rides. I’ve found it takes many days for muscles to not ‘hurt’ on the bike and 2 weeks! for the power numbers (and my self worth) to come back to life. Sadly, strenuous hikes (> 5 miles), can also wreak havoc. So it ends up being off-season for me and then downgraded to yoga and upper body only during the peak cycling season.
After appfoximately 10 seasons trying to incorporate gym and bike I found its just not possible for me as my bike level and enjoyment suffers.
Bike is my priority so I’ve now settled on doing home workouts concentrating on body weight strength exercises, core annd stretching.
I can enjoy both and maintain a decent level of overall strength, mobility and flexibility.
I feel peoples pain as i love the gym (ex powerlifter/strongman) but agree it does kinda make the bike efforts suffer. From an excess mass point of view, and fatigue. Lures me into the conundrum of do i need to eat more to maintain good energy, but then that caloric surplus only aids in keeping my upper body mass lol. I also like the aspect of lifting weights to maintain durability/bone density/general health.
My compromise has come down to just limiting my RPE, limiting overall session length (2x 60 min sessions per week) and reducing upper body sets to 2.
If this doesnt work, im reverting back to a calorie surplus and focusing on max watts, flat crits and not w/kg or any hilly races 
I think you can still work the upper body hard(er) and not suffer as much on the bike.
The question of compromising on riding for weight training, or the other way around is comparing two different methods of exercise, and finding the right ratio depends a lot on what you are looking to get out of it. Want freakish large legs? Lift. Want strong capable legs? Ride. Want more upper body strength? Lift. You are not going to build a larger upper by riding, unless it’s a hand-cycle.
However riding provides more that shapely legs. Many body systems are benefiting that aren’t during a weight lifting workout.
However I firmly believe that as humans age they SHOULD be lifting more weights, and work very hard on balance and flexibility. Oldsters not able to lift themselves off the floor is a huge (no pun) problem. Oldsters that can’t bend over or do and fall over are a problem. Especially if Medicare and Medicaid are ending, along with the ACA. Being strong and able is going to be even more important.
I agree upper body doesn’t add too much fatigue for on the bike (unless CNS is being challenged with max loads). But the upper body mass is my downfall at the minute that I could do without so I’m trying to just do MED rather than build any more muscle.
Plus deadlifts and squats still add upper body mass/strength. Probably more than enough.
Squats will help build and maintain hip flexor strength and stability. I mean there is a place for weight lifting, but if you have a focus on riding, you can easily overdo it, and end up having to compromise.
You could periodize the lifting. Heavy weight and large volume in the winter months (Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb) with endurance rides (no intensity), get the gains, then cut back starting in March to a weight and volume that does just enough for maintenance while allowing you to ride strongly and get the Z4 and 5 work in. For example, once a week you get a good warm up in and just do one working set with a heavy weight and lowish reps and one slightly less heavy set with highish weights per muscle group and you’re done. Or you do the heavy/low rep set one day and the less heavy/higher rep set on a second day.
Some good advice in this thread, I’d add a few things though (I’ve been lifting recreationally mostly with free weights for the last 10y and cycling since I know myself, also recreationally, no competitions, I’m 42): I think each of us should do some heavy lifting since body density decreases from age 30 onwards.
In my personal opinion, your strength training is quite high volume. Elliott Hulse has a video on Youtube, the ONLY 4 exercises you need to grow stronger: front squats, dips, deadlifts, chin-ups.
Now, the problem with lifting too “heavy” is that it stresses the CNS (central nervous system), so if you do a hard lifting session, your CNS won’t “fire up” your legs for a cycling session. Done over and over again, you fatigue your CNS to the point that it needs months to recover, aka burnout (I’ve been there, both lifting and cycling).
Listen to your body, if you wake up and feel like cr*p, you probably pushed it too far the day before.
Do you warm up properly? people tend to neglect this aspect because of lack of time, but this is super important, if not done properly, your body and mind is not ready, just like trying to do sets of 3 min on/off VO2max intervals when your warm-up is only 4 min at 50% FTP. Warm-up is not only about “warming up” muscles, its about telling your body some heavy stuff is about to hit it Check Olympic weight lifters on youtube, they start with an empty bar! I’d say a proper warm-up in percentage of 1 RM should be something like: 8x40% 6x50% 4x60% 3x70% 2x80%
I see you also focus on “numbers”, ie FTP. I personally wouldn’t do that, that should be the result, not the goal. The goal should be to improve over time, who cares if it’s 2% or 4% FTP increase? If you chase some numbers you WILL get disappointed at a certain point in the future (when you don’t hit your “goal”) which might push you to train even harder → disaster.
I don’t know how your cycling training looks per week, maybe you push it too much also? I do a pyramidal style training, endurance 80% of total time, tempo and/or sweet spot 15%, threshold and/or VO2max 5%.
For lifting, you should test your one rep max once per month, this is to track your progress, and again, setting a goal like “deadlift X lbs by the end of …” is a recipe to burnout. You test your 1 RM, did it improve, yes, fantastic, no, why? Back to the drawing board.
Hope it helps
Lift less weight. To get the benefits of strength training that most people need when cycling (e.g. bone density), you don’t have to go very heavy at all, and certainly not to the point of multi-day DOMs. A solid strength periodization often would have you do heavy lifts only for about 6 weeks total out of the year. Some of that goes off the table if you’re some kind of sprinter.
Overall it boils down to what your goals are. If you’re trying to support your cycling, then we need to lift like it instead of trying to lift like a bodybuilder, etc. Most of the strength programs out there are designed for people who are going to the gym as their primary “thing.” Most of us aren’t that.
Lower your weight, swallow your pride, go through quality movements and keep it consistent by periodizing things. Most people who describe their strength training on this forum are lifting too much too often IMO.
To get the benefits of strength training that most people need when cycling (e.g. bone density), you don’t have to go very heavy at all,
I would like to politely express my skepticism on this point, or at least ask for some further reading.
and certainly not to the point of multi-day DOMs
In my experience, DOMS has very little to do with proximity to 1rm and much more to do with eccentric loading, hard sets at relatively high reps, and possibly depth of stretch. 20r x 5s of unweighted split jumps will make me walk funny for a week if I’m not fairly used to it, 3x3 high handle trap bar DL at like 80-90% of a current 1rm with a focus on rep speed will basically never make me sore. People ITT (not necessarily you) are talking about low weight and high reps as a more recoverable option, but in my experience rep range is pretty much completely independent of recoverability.
I’m not talking about low weight, high reps at all. I’m saying loading needs to be less for the benefits you need from cycling. I do not at all advocate for 12 or 20 rep sets at low % of 1 or 5RM.
You can google “strength training for bone density” and read any number of citations that talk about using bands and light weights for that specific purpose.
DOMS is often caused by different stimulus than what your body is used to. It’s not unique to eccentric contractions, etc. I agree that you can go lift heavy for 3x3 and probably not get any kind of soreness… if you’re adapted to that.
My point is that you don’t need to be progressing weightlifting at the same time that you’re progressing your cycling training if your cycling is the priority. Maintain in the gym. You do not have to progress weight or rep schemes in perpetuity to gain the wellness benefits of strength training as a supporting exercise for your cycling. Strength should absolutely be periodized and for MOST cyclists, the truly heavy lifting periods should be relatively short and infrequent.
The weights aren’t crazy in any of the ones I’ve read. But lifting heavier and closer to failure should allow you to lower the overall time spent lifting compared to these studies.
High weight low reps (< 5) is going to be worse from a fatigue standpoint. Cue the famous 7x3 vs 3x10 study. I think 5-10 rep range, 1-3 RIR is going to be better. But you should play around with the rep ranges and see what works best for you. Lifting close to failure is maximizing the training stimulus relative to the time in the gym. If you’re willing to add more volume, you can lift with more reps in reserve to achieve the same goal.
I suspect those 10W are mostly blood volume contraction from lack of activity. You might be able to sauna these gains back, if that’s the case.
And I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum. Once I get past the initial DOMS of “getting back into the gym after time off,” lifting rarely affects my cycling. I can hit hard intervals immediately after lifting (same day).
Something you could do is stack all the lower body work into a single day, then program your hard bike days as far away from this day as possible.
So much useful stuff in here everyone. Thanks!
I should be able to get a DEXA soon and see if in the last 2 years I’ve gotten better or worse. I think those data will be the most helpful in deciding where I need to focus in the off season.
I also now jump in place waiting at the bus stop with my son. Maybe that will be all I need for bone density Assessment of Osteogenic Exercise Efficacy via Bone Turnover Markers in Premenopausal Women: A Randomized Controlled Trial - PubMed