Feature request: Workout preference learning

[OreoCookie]

@CaptainThunderpants

I firmly disagree here. I’d put both long sustained Threshold and Over-Unders in the same block. I’d never put short-shorts in my VO2 block, or really even in the same training phase.

That’s not my claim. I didn’t say anything about whether or not these two different workout types should or shouldn’t appear in the same block. I wrote that they are — like sustained threshold workouts and over/unders — two different workout types in the same power zone.

@CaptainThunderpants

There is riding in VO2 power (short-shorts) and there is training to improve VO2 (sustained intervals). If I’m doing a VO2 block, that is, a block of training to improve my VO2, I don’t really care about just riding in VO2 power (short-shorts).

“Riding in VO2max power” sounds as if these workouts are ineffective. They are not, they are aimed at achieving different aims. (Just spelling this out for emphasis, I don’t think you wrote anything to contradict that.)

But zooming out, I reckon the bigger question is under what circumstances should you do VO2max blocks. Apart from when I was doing unstructured training and my favorite type of training were 4~5-minute hill climb repeats (aka sustained VO2max intervals), I don’t think I ever did only VO2max work. I don’t think TR ever made me do such a block.

[CaptainThunderpants]

@OreoCookie

I wrote that they are — like sustained threshold workouts and over/unders — two different workout types in the same power zone.

And my point was that sustained Threshold and Over-Unders have the same or similar goals. Whereas sustained VO2 and short-shorts are very different workouts with different goals. In other words, sustained Threshold and Over-Unders are much more similar workouts; whereas sustained VO2 and short-shorts are very different.

@OreoCookie

as if these workouts are ineffective. They are not, they are aimed at achieving different aims.

I think we’re actually saying the same thing. But maybe we’re not seeing that we’re saying the same thing. Going back to your earlier post, this is pretty much my entire point I was making:

@OreoCookie

VO2max as a power zone vs. extending one’s VO2max as a training goal. Long, sustained intervals are aimed at doing the latter, short-shorts belong to the same power range, but have a very different goal (getting better at short, repeatable bursts of power in the 120–150 % FTP range).

I agree with the above statement.

@OreoCookie

under what circumstances should you do VO2max blocks.

@OreoCookie

I don’t think TR ever made me do such a block.

I don’t remember if it was this thread or a different one, but this was a big complaint of mine of TR. And one of the reasons why I left. I think every cyclist, regardless of discipline, can benefit from a dedicated VO2 max block. After years of TR stuck and never improving, I had a coach give me a dedicated VO2 block and I was able to break through a plateau and make some huge gains. TR is great, but I don’t think they do VO2 right. And my guess is that it’s really hard and sucks and they don’t want subscribers to leave. So they make it too easy so people can complete the plans.

[OreoCookie]

@CaptainThunderpants

And my point was that sustained Threshold and Over-Unders have the same or similar goals.

I don’t think so, e. g. one of the goals with over/unders is to improve your body’s ability to shuttle lactate and to cope with repeated efforts close to threshold. That’s important if you are rotating during a race, the over portion simulates you being at the front, the under is you recovering while you are behind other riders.

But I don’t want to belabor that point.

@CaptainThunderpants

I don’t remember if it was this thread or a different one, but this was a big complaint of mine of TR.

Looking at it through the lens of outcomes, in my case VO2 blocks seem less effective at improving fitness than mixing e. g. sustained VO2 work with other workout types.

@CaptainThunderpants

And my guess is that it’s really hard and sucks and they don’t want subscribers to leave. So they make it too easy so people can complete the plans.

I don’t think this is particular to TR, but seems quite common. I remember one study that is commonly cited (not just on the TR podcast) where researchers found that doing brutal intervals was very effective, with the slight caveat that none of their test subjects wanted to continue for another round.

In the long run, consistency is king and training approach (e. g. polarized vs. pyramidal vs. whatever) is less important. In my experience, sustained VO2max workouts are probably the most dreaded/hated, no matter how good you are. They are very draining mentally and physically, so you incur a lot of fatigue. Doing two per week seems daunting. But even putting that aside, a plan that mixes workout types has been more successful for me.