I’ve recently experimented a bit doing workouts in ERG mode directly in TR instead of in Zwift. Reason is that since I changed my trainer from Tacx Flux S to Zwift Ride with Wahoo kickr core, I felt like ERG mode was “wrong” somehow. It felt like Zwift punished me much harder with the minimal cadence/power changes. Atleast my HR has been much higher.
Example is Sweet spot Training “Asta”. here my HR went up to 174 (zone 5) by the end of the intervals. They should be about 160 max for me.
Today I did OU threshold session “Emerson -2” which is 3.9. It was hard but I could easely have done another section 10 min threshold. My HR today only went up to max 174 for the Over’s.
Compared to the OU treshold I did recently on Zwift “Asta” which is 2.9. That one was much harder.
Even endurance rides like “Pioneer -3” is better for me directly in TR.
I’m not sure if it is the change in trainer for me or something software wise, but I find it really strange and want to ask here if I’m the only one who experience this?
For now I run my workouts on Ipad in TR and just use Zwift for visuals on my pc and skip the integration part
Long time Zwift user, newish Trainerroad user. I’d always used Zwift for my ERG mode workouts and had probably been used to it. During my recent move I couldn’t get my setup running again so was running TR straight off my phone.
Once I got Zwift back up and pulling my TR workouts I was having a much harder time keeping up. I’ve always known if I stopped in Zwift it’s brutal getting ERG going again where as TRs app was much easier. Best way I could describe Zwift ERG is pedaling in sand which makes it seem harder.
After a couple weeks on Zwift it’s starting to feel more “normal” to me again, but I believe the two platforms operate ERG very differently. Think this was well documented during the initial integration but I had never used the TR native app to experience.
Also been using Zwift forever but worth the tacx flux S. Here I didn’t notice the problem, so perhaps it is trainer related and TR is better at handling wahoo
I’ll experiment a bit more. Would prefer to have the workouts directly in Zwift
Im of the belief that its a zwift update issue and not TR or smart trainer related. Ive had it in the past on a number of occasions when i update the zwift app on my Apple TV. Only to fix itself on the next Zwift update. And the cycle continues…
I definitely notice a difference in erg between TR and Zwift. I used both for workouts before the integration and have kept on using both as I wasn’t enjoying the erg mode experience in Zwift as much. For me, I think it’s a powermatch algorithm thing. Zwift seems to oscillate around the target more whereas the algorithm on TR feels better. That being said, I haven’t tried either app without powermatch so I can’t say for sure that’s the issue!
I’ve heard that many people prefer the feel of TR’s ERG mode over others, and I’d have to agree with that.
@JanK, if you’re feeling that workouts are significantly harder in one than the other, I’d first ensure that you’re connecting to the same devices across both platforms. Do you have a power meter on your bike or any other sensors that could be interfering?
Also, it’s normal to feel really good one day and not so hot another, so I’d be curious to hear about how this feeling develops over time.
Either way, I’m here if you want to dig into this further!
Thanks. I do feel they are way harder. I use Ipad with Trainerroad and pc with Zwift. Pc is connected to same devices with Ant+ and Ipad with Bluetooth. I do not user external powermeter, just to make things simple, and the power, HR and cadence displayed on both trainerroad and zwift match just fine. However Zwift is way harder.
To continue my little “experiment” I’m currently troubleshooting with the “James” endurance workout which is consistenly 75% FTP endurance workout.
HR went much higher than it should for a Zone 2 endurance ride and it felt way too hard from the beginning. avg HR is 144bpm and was as high as 151bpm (my zone 2 HR on Garmin is up to about 143). I had 80% of my time in HR zone 3.
Today I did exactly same workout but directly in TrainerRoad:
This was a really nice workout, it felt like a good zone 2 ride should feel and it felt A LOT easier than 8/6. avg HR 138 bpm and max at 145 bpm. Here according to Garmin I have 87% of my time in Zone 2 and only 6% in zone 3 HR zone!
So something is WAY off and I dont believe it is me that varies this much. It really does FEEL different. To continue the experiment I’ll do the same workout once again on Sunday and then in Zwift. If it again reports so much off, of what I would expect I believe some update like @MeMeToo mentions or something specific with Zwift and wahoo kickr core has happened. But then again I shouldn’t be the only one experiencing this.
I wonder if it’s more a difference in ant+ vs bluetooth. Do you have bluetooth on your PC? If so I’d try connecting to Zwift by bluetooth and see if there’s any difference. Perhaps you’re getting a lot of ant+ dropouts.
Now this I really don’t notice. If anything I find zwift is an easier/ slower transition than TR. That’s on ATV v android or apple mobile app with TR. And without powermatch in all cases.
Hi, I only changed to Ant+ after I started using my IPad for TR. otherwise I used Bluetooth. I’ll do the same for next test on Sunday so it’s consistent.
So HR in Zwift and Trainerroad for the same workout the last 2 times was spot on.
So whats wrong with this? compared to my other “James” ride on Zwift. I see two posibilities:
Today I noticed a Zwift update before the workout. Although I canceled it it perhaps did deploy anyway and magically solved my issue?
The “first” James I did 8/6, with an avg HR at 144bpm and 80% in HR zone 3, I watched movies instead of just listeningen to music. Could this be more taxing?
Final explanation would be that Heart rate is really not to be used at all? Could it really be that my “good days vs bad days” feels so much different? I doubt that one. Atleast for this big a difference in Zone 2.
But anyways. atleast for endurance rides I see no difference between ERG in zwift and TR mode. Still going to experiement with the harder intervals, but I guess it’s more difficult to measure such workouts. We’ll see.
I think most people that I’ve spoken with who have noticed the differences in ERG mode in Zwift mentioned that the issues were present during workouts with big changes in power targets, such as VO2 Max, Anaerobic, and some Threshold/Sweet Spot workouts.
You certainly could have been experiencing this with an Endurance workout, too, but there are also many, many other factors that could have generated this experience.
I do believe that a bad day could leave you feeling the way you felt that day, though. A bad day on the bike where your body is overly fatigued from training, stress, or illness does feel bad, and although James is “only” an endurance workout, it’s about as tough as they come.
Riding at the top end of zone 2 might not feel really difficult on a good day, but it definitely can feel a bit hard on a bad day.
Let me know how things continue to go as you move forward with your training, and if you have any issues that you’d like to chat about.
Thanks for the thoughts. I’m glad it’s the same atleast for endurance rides. But I just find it strange that there was so much difference. Perhaps I had this on my old tacx flux s, but it seems to be more “forgiving/delayed” during interval changes, than the wahoo kicker at least in Zwift.
I’ll set the reason here to be “me” having a bad day
Thanks for your time. Amazing support and forum we have here. Keep up the good work!
This is interesting because lately I have noticed the same thing. Now going back before TR was integrated into Zwift I preferred the Zwift interface so I was manually creating my TR workouts in Zwift (loser I know haha). So I can’t speak directly to TR vs. Zwift because I haven’t really used TR much.
BUT - I have felt like Zwift has been “harder” lately. Especially once the weather broke and I started getting outside more. I thought it might have been because I had the bike I typically ride on my trainer getting worked on. But I feel like maybe this is the issue. For example I feel like I could ride high tempo/low sweet spot fairly comfortably when I’m outside at a high cadence (95+), but even after a couple of minutes on the trainer it feels hard. I thought maybe it was just boredom but maybe there’s something to it.
I’ve been doing ERG mode workout across a number of platforms and haven’t felt a consequential difference between them. In normal ERG mode (not power match), the program sends the power setting to the trainer, and the trainer does the rest regulating resistance as a function of rpm to maintain power. The app has no influence over that. Some platforms may send one step change, and some may break the step into several smaller steps over a couple of seconds to ease the transition, but that’s about it. Power match is a bit different in that the app is in the regulation loop, so different apps may affect power regulation differently.
Hope it is ok I’m “opening” this thread again since I dont agree on the sol.utuion after experimenting more with this and I think this topic could help others also.
Since June I have been running workouts mainly in TR. However I have also figured out my FTP was way too high, set by AI FTP. This is somewhat solved now by doing a manual 20 min FTP test + TR ramp test. Ramp test got me at 249w and 20min test in zwift was at 243w. FTP set manually to 245w. My THR is about 168bpm and max is 182bpm.
This is great. However after I have manually set it to the above, I’ve noticed that my HR and RPE, when doing TR workouits in TR was way to low. So apparently TrainerRoad ERG is too “nice” and I’m able do same worktous in TR with atleast 10w higher FTP than I am in Zwift. Now I know that my FTP at 245w is correct. I know my HR zones, and yes they do vary on good/bad days ofc, but the difference is HUGE and it really annoys me. Perhaps it is specific to my trainer (zwift ride on wahoo kickr core v1). If that is the case I would happily upgrade to a new better one.
I love the TR ERG logic. it feels much better than Zwift.
I love the Zwift integration and having guidance on my main screen and the simplicity about it.
I want my FTP to be realistic so it also fits with outdoor rides and I can do a real test and see improvements.
I cannot be the only one having this problem? So based on this I need to stick with doing my workouts in Zwift as this is closest to real FTP?
And most of all I guess despite platform, how is AI FTP and adaptive training handling all this?: If people are using both TR and Zwift for doing workouts in ERG, how will AI take into account when RPE suddenly is a 9/10 instead of 3/5 on the same workout just because a different platform is used?
Example on recent workouts with different RPE if interested:
yes I know they are different workouts, but should vary this much in my opinion. Look af the max hr and avg hr for the intervals.
Thanks for your inputs. If I’m not the only one I think there should perhaps be something in the Zwift integration FAQ page stating that you need to stick with doing workouts in either Zwift or TR, not both: Training in Zwift with TrainerRoad: FAQ – TrainerRoad ?
No worries! You can always use the forum as you’d like!
What did AI FTP Detection have your FTP set to? I do think that Ramp Tests and 20-minute tests can give varying results, and I always recommend AI FTP Detection for those who use TR. Were you workouts only feeling hard in Zwift, or were they too hard across the board?
I’m not sure I’ve seen such a large, consistent discrepancy between TR and Zwift before, so I’ll have to dig into that one a bit.
It is normal, however, for most athletes to be able to put out slightly more power when riding outside than inside. The cooling is much better, biomechanics are more efficient, and motivation is usually a bit higher as well.
What’s most important here, though, is that you’re using the same power source for all your riding. This means using the power meter that you utilize when riding outside during indoor workouts. You can do this with the PowerMatch feature in TR. Otherwise, if you’re using a smart trainer for indoor workouts, and a power meter for outdoor ones, there may be a discrepancy between the two sensors meaning your efforts will never match.
I’m going to see if I can find any other cases where athletes are experiencing major discrepancies between TR and Zwift, but in the meantime, I’d recommend trying to use your power meter for indoor workouts.
Thanks, Regarding setting the FTP I had excellent help by your colleague Brandon in a support ticket (#322731) so I think that is all well and good. But fyi TR AI had, for some reason, suggested all up to 266w FTP. While Ramp test and 20 min test says 249 and 243w. Now last time AI have suggested 252w (which I have ignored, trying to stick with 245 for a while.
But after adjusting to 245w workouts have not been feeling too hard. They have been feeling a bit too easy in TR as mentioned and much harder on Zwift - still durable though.
I only use Wahoo kickr core as power meter to avoid complexity. However I have occasionally tested with external powermeter pedals and verified they are very close.
So my experimenting is only indoors. Same bike but different feeling between zwift and TR - regardless or different workouts.
