Ok, thanks a lot!. so following your if somebody “struggles” with ERg mode you would recommend using big gear, I’m assuming ….
I prefer the big ring inertia but my neighbours don’t, so I do all of my workouts in the quieter small ring. Which may or may not be a factor for you to consider.
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Yeah, that can possibly help for riders new to ERG use.
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I did Mono -1 last week (4x6min over/under), dropped the target by 3% after the first set, completed the workout, and got the “you were struggling” pop-up.
Moore is really into extending TTE
For me though….the worst would be to train your ass off indoors and come outdoors feeling incompetent due to the training effect mismatch. I think is a lot safer to keep the small ring always.
I wish we had some real science here. I’d love to know how large or small the differences in things like ERG vs RES vs STD vs SIM modes are. Then parallel to that is the flywheel speed/inertia related to ride feel and outside demands.
To read what some people imply, it would seem we are talking about mid to high single-digit percentage differences in real power/performance deltas. I have no real idea, but if we are talking about differences that large, it would seemingly be relatively easy to demonstrate that. I tend to think we are well into the low single-digit range and officially “marginal gains” territory. Total guess on my part, like I suspect it is for others, so it would be great to get some actual studies to tackle these questions.
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I’m going to do some testing myself because I suspect this is an issue I had a couple weeks ago, when I felt the trainer(kicker v5) got 5-10 watts harder after an unnecessary calibration using my Garmin 530……I’m not sure yet, will report back
I’ve had a smart trainer for less than a month now, finally did my first threshold workout today using ERG.
I definitely like erg mode, RPE felt the same, legs felt the same. I think of it as an accountability partner, especially since most workouts during the week are at 5am.
A couple times I thought of changing gears but realized I only need to change my cadence.
FWIW, I’m a newbie with erg and so far I like it for my early morning workouts when I’m still have asleep. Maybe I’ll change my mind in a few weeks. Just my 2 cents for now….
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Finally listened to this podcast. Could be summed up by saying “You shouldn’t use ERG mode if you’re incapable of listening to your body, too stubborn to adjust the target power based on how you’re feeling, have an incorrect FTP, or never ride outside”. These guys just sound really condescending.
For most of us non-pros who don’t live in places with year-round warm, dry weather, I bet pushing ourselves with ERG mode without having the mental burden of keeping up a prescribed power when we’re already dealing with everything else in life and trying to just get a workout in in our basements is more effective than other options. Indoor training sucked prior to ERG mode.
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Thanks for the summary, you just save me an hour and a half of half listening while I work.
None the less, whatever is discussed in the podcast is of no consequence to me as I have a kurt kinetic trainer and no intentions of upgrading to a direct drive trainer. It might wear out my rear tire faster and make a little more noise, but I enjoy shifting and finding the right gear for the right intensity.
There was a workout that suggested to drop out of ERG mode and ride the next interval in ‘sim mode’(?), so I adjusted the fictitious gears down, and dropped out of ERG, and hit a cement wall. I could NOT budge the pedals**, and my back went into immediate ‘We’re out of here dude’ mode. I flipped it back into ERG, and was able to keep pedaling, but was traumatized by that and ended up dropping the ride. I was shocked to say the least. WOW!! It was like a near infinite spiral of into a wall with no hope. Funny thing is I remember that happening, and can’t remember the trainer I was using. I’ve tried so many over the last 4 to 5 years. (I think I panicked)
So, start in ERG and ‘transition’ into the wall, or just start in sim(?) mode and like it. That incident has, to a large part, dissuaded me from veering off ERG mode paradise and potentially into a wall. ERG FOR EVER!!
** I think I got a half a rev out of them, but from doable but challenging to humiliating was shocking.
For me… standard mode (wahoo kickr bike) feels more like “real riding” but on a newly paved, perfectly flat road with a tail wind. Erg mode feels like you are grinding uphill, into the wind.
I like both… On recovery or Z2 rides Erg keeps me at the desired % without drifting too high or low. It is nice to turn off the brain and watch a show. For workouts, Erg can be really tough in those long super-threshold or VO2 reps. At least for me standard mode I can pick my gearing so I can try to keep my cadence up. 
- Nothing is simple in life, right?
Swapping out of ERG into another trainer mode has it’s own issues. No matter what other non-ERG mode you use within TR, it has it’s own setting that can and should be adjusted to suit each rider’s needs. This might relate to the issue you had (you might have had a super high setting in either mode listed below), but it’s hard to know without the more info.
Broadly speaking, here is a short primer on the non-ERG modes within TR workouts.
Resistance
- 0-100 setting range. A setting between 20-40% seems common, but depends on the trainer and rider. Think of it like a rough setting within the maximum capability of the trainer.
- This is a mostly linear power curve where it takes about the same amount of input to ramp up power not matter your flywheel speed. It is more like the simple magnetic trainers of old.
Standard
- (aka Level mode in other systems)
- 0-9 setting range. A setting between 1-3 seems common, but depends on the trainer and rider.
- This is a non-linear (aka progressive) power curve that has a more notable ramp up in power as your flywheel speed increases. It is more like the simple fluid trainers of old, that often aimed to mimic the progressive nature of faster speeds when riding outside.
Finding the right setting for any non-ERG mode takes a bit of experimentation, and may well deviate from the quick ranges I shared above. Thankfully, TR seems to remember the setting you choose between sessions, so when you swap in future workouts you will get the same setting again. This makes repeat use of the non-ERG modes easier once you dial in your preferred setting.
And keep in mind that once you nail the desired setting, swapping to and from ERG to any other mode will still likely mean some shifting in order to hold even the current power setting, not to mention hitting different targets along the workout. Swapping modes takes a certain amount of finesse and effort.
SIM (simulation)
- TR does no offer a SIM mode. Those are from apps like Zwift, Wahoo RGT and such where they replicate the basic profile (road grade) of a real or virtual route and usually have a progressive power curve akin to the TR Standard mode mentioned above.
And just to offer it up, here is the TR doc:
https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024069532-Smart-Trainer-Modes-Explained
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Not trying to convince you otherwise, but here is the flip side. I’m absolutely non-pro. While I had a bike most of my life, after college I was married to my Silicon Valley job for 10 years. Then married to my wife and kids - plus the high-stress job.
Started spin classes in my early fifties. A couple years with the second year on Stages bikes with power meters. When I’m on a bike my complete focus is on the workout. And I could hold and produce erg-like power. So when I got a Kickr and tried Erg this was my gut reaction:
yes I still think that erg doesn’t feel like riding outside. Sim mode is closest. After 2 years of using Erg my conclusion was it didn’t help me at all.
Erg encouraged me to ride at a steady cadence which was counter-productive and less effective. Couldn’t feel more strongly about it. I also discovered that using just my bike computer, inside and outside, was less of a mental burden. One workout UI to rule them all 
Thats the flip side of Erg, while trying to not sound condescending.
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Interesting summary.
The thing for me is, I’m not trying to get an outside-like workout in. I’m not trying to feel like I’m outdoors. I’m just trying to stress my system at a given intensity.
I’m much more likely to ride indoors on ERG mode than otherwise and I don’t live someplace where I can do most interval workouts outdoors easily (traffic, climbs are too short or too steep, weather). I have become SO much better after doing ERG intervals and the hypothetical marginal gains I would get from non-ERG indoor intervals aren’t there because I probably wouldn’t do them.
I felt like the podcast guys were assuming everyone doing ERG is not adjusting the workout intensity based on their RPE but I always do that so I have a hard time seeing the difference.
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Didn’t see this posted above, and pretty sure I remember the podcast. Absolutely agree that VO2 Max and Max Power test type efforts are better done in Resistance mode. After having done a bunch of MMP tests and a “real” VO2 Block in resistance mode at a real high cadence, I felt I was missing something just plodding away in Erg.
Beyond that, I ride most everything in Erg so I can try to tune out, but am going to play around with more resistance riding this year.
Consistency for the win!
I’m more likely to ride indoors if my brain is engaged. So that means responding to changes in virtual terrain, or going to a spin class. Not only did mono-cadence impact my performance, “tuning out” in erg made me not like my bike. I sit in front of a screen all day, the last thing I want to do is stare at another screen.
But I get it, we aren’t all wired the same way.
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I should probably try a workout in sim mode. It seems that switching modes didn’t work on that trainer. (I think it was a Kickr Bike) It also, early on, liked to spiral of death easily but a firmware update largely fixed that issue. Then it would appear to logarithmically hammer the resistance to which their support said it was simulating a ‘real bike’. It most certainly was not 
Oh well… Thanks for the info though.
Erg mode on Zwift workouts seems to allow people to plateau easier, but I need to do an FTP test, so who knows…
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Yeah, the Kickr Bike is a different beast and not one I know enough about for this use to comment on other that the results there may be unique compared to regular trainers. One key difference is the virtual gear function since it has a single gear ratio. That means the “shifting” is an adjustment of the current resistance level applied by the brake vs true shifting with a bike and trainer combo.
Broadly speaking, some people have made comments that ERG feel may differ between Zwift and TR. I have done only a handful of Z ERG workouts vs maybe 1000 in TR, but they were reasonably similar for my use at least.