LT1 and VT1 are pretty well matched.
these are really well written and thought out distinctions. this should be the gold standard for these definitions. totally nailed it in a very understandable fashion
Interesting AACC podcast today where Jonathan and Nate talked about the upcoming expansion of the RPE survey with incremental points between the usual 5 categories. I think Nate said the there will be something like 3 ‘ticks’ between each category allowing a finer grain response when something is “kinda easy but not quite but certainly not fully moderate”. Or ya it was “hard-ish but kinda not that hard almost moderate sorta”.
It’ll be interesting to see how that tunes the prediction more tightly.
My VT1 (and I don’t think I’m special) is significantly lower than the top of my endurance zone. It lies roughly in the middle. If I want to keep it really, really easy, I keep it below VT1 or 125 bpm.
But that isn’t helpful for endurance workouts. (I don’t know where my LT1 is, I’ve never been tested.)
I hear this, but my experience has been that the system is too reactive to these responses. Sometimes I don’t sleep great, or I had an advised beer the night before, and off day, whatever. I can still get through my workout, it just feels a step harder than it might otherwise.
I also wonder if the AI has similar issues reading HR data because I’ve definitely had off days where a workout pushes my HR much higher than I would otherwise expect. Maybe the AI could force a prompt of “Were you a dumb shit last night?” when HR seems off or the survey response is unexpectedly high.
Thanks for posting this, as you’ve articulated a point that’s also been confusing for me. I’ve read the TR documentation and the descriptions, but similarly, I still don’t understand how TR wants us to really rate things. a 45 minute, Z1/2 recovery ride is easy. A 90 minute Z2 ride can also be “easy” according to the TR definition. I could make it a 2 hour ride, but I definitely feel differently after a 90 minute ride than I feel after a 45 minute ride, so I might rate it as moderate. Similar story for moderate/hard with some of those longer SS workouts, and hard/very hard.
I love TR, but the survey and how it may or may not effect my plan and my training is my least favorite part. As far as deciding, could I have done this workout again, sure that is easy to know. But in terms of, if there were more intervals, that kind of only is useful if doing intervals that are SS or above. For an endurance ride, there aren’t really “intervals” despite the power changing here and there. The difference between easy and moderate is so slim on these rides so all it does is add anxiety about answering wrong and having that tank the training going forward. The system can see the power I did and the effect it had on my HR and it has my very long history of rides. Can’t IT figure out how hard the ride was for me based on all this data of how my body works? If so, that would be so much better.
Which is why a fixed 75% is not that useful. Just as pegging FTP as a fixed percentage of VO2 max or vice versa is problematic.
This applies to any FTP test, though, e. g. 95 % of average power during your 20-minute test. That’s why I wrote you learn what your personal conversion factor is and then use that. You are not locked into a fixed factor, you are not forced to use the default. That personalized conversion factor should change slowly, if at all across a season.
Even if you do a “proper” blood lactate test to determine power at MLSS, there are different, inequivalent definitions of what constitutes the inflection point that will lead to significant differences in what the determined power at MLSS is.
You are over thinking it. Just rate it how it feels on the day.
I definitely feel differently after a 90 minute ride than I feel after a 45 minute ride
That’s normal and expected. Duration affects RPE. Just rate the workout based on how it felt. You aren’t ever answering wrong, as there aren’t pre-set rules as to how each workout zone should feel.
It sounds like your issue is mostly with endurance rides, and I’ll just say again that there isn’t a wrong answer here.
If your Z2 ride felt moderate, it’s best to answer the survey that way. We shouldn’t upend your training because of that.
If you find that a post-workout survey response changes your training in an undesirable way, let us know so that we can take a look.
The goal here is to have each athlete rate every workout based on how it felt, as that’s the data we’re looking for. 
But LT1 / VT1 can change with training also, and independent of FTP / LT2 / VT2 / MLSS. You said your VT1 is 0.67IF, my VT1 is currently about 0.84IF. If we both rode at 0.75IF, You can be sure who would be most likely to be feeling it after 5,6,7 8 hours etc. Mine is high as that is what I need to train (well one aspect) for a high all day every day pace for ultra endurance performance.
I’m also interested in what they may do with the survey. I wonder i at the end a 1-10 survey would just work better.
I’m just going to have more decision paralysis. Sigh.
If they end up doing what they talked about on the podcast i think that would be ideal.
3 notches between each of the categories would give you the option of a 50/50 blend between categories as well as a “sprinkle” of a neighboring category if you’re not 100% sure about your rating. For me that would cover every eventuality.
Looking back at some of the notes I had on my rides I think it would be a big help.
Many of us on the forum have had to round up on the RPE say when a Hard ride felt more like a Hard .5 and at the end I pick Very Hard to be safe.
Also for us masters that are still doing three hard workouts per week I’ve found that even some of the short 30 minute rides in between hard days that goes into the tempo zone can feel a bit harder than Easy but not quite moderate and don’t feel it take so hard of a workout hit because of it.
I find the 3 notches hilarious. I get why it has to be done, but it really says something about humans and analysis paralysis.
Easy - Can read book and drink beer during session
Moderate - Needed to put the beer down.
Feels like an appropriate time to shill my patented workout evaluator, and no I’m not adding any more nines!