Duration Different From Indoor to Outdoor Workout

This has been a huge headache for me. I need to be able to select outdoor workouts of a particular duration, and this made it impossible. In the thread about resubscribing I was sort of in the 50/50 camp, but this is a major con to going forward with TR.

I hope @Nate_Pearson and the team seriously reconsider this.

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Yeah it can be pretty annoying if you only have a certain amount of time allotted and then you have to go searching for that time and just guess which indoor will translate to the correct outdoor workout. But I haven’t come across this for any workout other than the endurance ones. In which case I just go out and ride with a target power in mind. It really doesn’t matter if you just do 1hr at 70% vs (15min @ 65 then 15 @ 70, then 15 @ 75, etc.). I’ve never actually used the outdoor workout feature for an endurance ride.

Nice to have a target power range on the head unit during an outdoor ride. The workaround with TR outdoor workouts is, assuming indoor power targets are not modified, use the outdoor workout and simply ride for about the same amount of time as indoor.

You can also mount your phone on your bars and run the indoor workout while riding outdoors. Just be careful not to read the instruction text or stare at the screen.

Sure, but the issue is trying to plan my weeks. I have to manually insert every outdoor Z2 ride into the calendar.

Ultimately, each athlete has to exercise some agency in deciding how much time needs to be added to get to your interval spot, traffic navigation and stops included.
It will look different for everyone, but best practice with this age-old question is just to focus on the intervals prescribed in the workout, first and foremost. It can be easy to trivialize the extra time/TSS, just focus on the effort and the goal of the workout. :+1:

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There are no intervals in Z2, it’s just ride Z2 for a particular duration.

It’s baffling why this has become such a sticking point. Simply being able to search outdoor workouts by duration would instantly solve the problem.

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Baffling is relative. Like you said just go out and ride z2 for X hours/minutes. No search required :wink:

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If you have a way to telepathically project that on to my calendar beforehand I’m all ears.

I’m talking about planning my training volume, not actually physically doing the workouts

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Yes, we should add this to our workout list.

There are a few changes coming to it (I have a different version right now) and I think we can add this one too.

There are also other improvements coming that can hopefully handle this situation.

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I agree with you if you are riding non-stop on a flat road like the trainer, but the reason these are longer is to account for the very high possibility that you will have to stop sometimes, and that you will be on a downhill that you can’t pedal on. The reason that they are +1 hour is to account for this time coasting or stopped that would not need to be accounted for inside.

The reason that the tempo, SS, and threshold workouts are less affected by this is because really the only important part of the workout is the intervals, these are the parts of the workouts that are inspiring adaptation. They expect a rider to take the downhills in these recovery valleys so that they can always be on the uphill for the intervals. Because the downhill is done in these recovery valleys, very little/no time needs to be made up because these valleys are (most of the time) accomplishing the same goal/purpose at 0% FTP as they would at 40% FTP. So, the reason that the endurance rides are especially long outside is because the entire thing is important so in order to make up that lost time on the descents, it needs to be much longer.

No.

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So people who live in a flat area or rolling roads, where pressure on the pedals can be maintained, get an extra hour of TSS compared to those who live in the mountains? Why not keep it at the inside duration and have a note for those who live in mountainous areas or places where there are lots of traffic stops, to add a little extra at the end?

I mean most people probably won’t even bother loading a zone 2 workout anyway so it’s sort of a moot point in my eyes.

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I agree, if it is flat and you constantly have pressure on the pedals, than you are correct. But, i think that most people probably have to coast at least sometimes on their rides.

The reality is that there will be a range from total efficiency to lots of coasting/stopping.

  • TR started with 1:1 match, people complained.
  • They swung the other direction with longer Z2 rides, different people complained.

As usual, it’s impossible to please everyone. I think the “right” answer is 1:1 for simple planning and more direct comparison between the time estimated in a simple sense. However, there should be notes and information indicating that people should feel free to (or even be encouraged to) increase the time of their Z2 rides if they include notable amounts of coasting and such (greater than 5-10%?). Leave it to the rider to determine and adjust as needed. It’s a mistake to hit the 50% adder as a rule because I think that is quite on the far end, but I have not done lengthy analysis (and don’t know what if any TR did in setting that multiplier?).

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For me personally running outdoor workouts on Garmin 820 is a bit complicated so I print workout (in my short way) and put it on the stem :slight_smile:

And adding Z2 rides to calendar is easy. Just add it and duplicate it until specific week (e.q. last week of the training plan)

Agreed.

I noticed this the other day with Andrews. Inside was 1:30, outside 2:15. Went back and forth a couple times and thought it was a mistake.

It makes sense a little bit that continuous inside work is a bit harder than outside work due to stoplights, traffic and that constant resistance you get from a trainer that you don’t get from the road…but where I live I don’t have a problem going for 3hrs while maybe hitting 3 stop lights that are usually green. Seems silly to automatically add a bunch of time assuming I’m going to coast through 30-45mins of a workout. Usually I don’t start a workout until I’m clear of the local stop lights and stuff anyways…and I’ll end the workout before getting back into town. If I did that here, I’d all of the sudden have a 3hr ride instead of a 1.5hr ride. That’s a pretty big time commitment difference, and TSS difference.

I think the easiest answer is use your own judgment. If you have a perfect road out your front door that let’s you pedal for an hour and a half without one coast…load the long outside workout and only pedal 90 minutes of it. If you live with lots of traffic and lights and whatnot and it’s hard to go continuously z2, then maybe you need more time on the bike than even the longer outside version.

edit: looks like they added this note, or I didn’t see it before…
Workouts completed outside are less efficient than indoor workouts, meaning you may need to ride longer than prescribed to hit the training stress target.

Not including real outliers, if you are coasting or stopped for even close to 50% of the duration of your endurance ride then you are doing something wrong. Either your route choice sucks or you just need to develop the discipline to keep pushing the pedals. I could maybe understand 25% longer but 50% is extremely excessive.

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This is what I currently do actually.

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