DOMS and causes? + 5, 6 or 8 minute intervals for VO2/FTP training?

[tony]

I can get cramps and nothing to do with hydration. I do drink electrolytes while riding but still get cramps. Intense exercise can affect the nervous system and this can cause cramps. My brother, sister and father also suffer from cramps so looks like genetic condition. My brother uses little sachets of mustard to relieve his cramps. Gave a packet to my sister who had a cramp in hand and relieved it in about 30s. I did not have any mustard but use pickle juice. It works for me.

Does Pickle Juice Work for Cramps?

[RONDAL]

@tony

Intense exercise can affect the nervous system and this can cause cramps.

I 100% agree with this statement for the record. I dont think hydration is the main factor either.

[russell.r.sage]

Can you describe the feeling of DOMS or at least what you are calling DOMS? DOMS to me is extreme soreness such that moving your sore muscles hurts. If I had DOMS in my legs, I would say sitting down and standing up would be painful and you must do so gingerly. If I had DOMS in my arms, such as from doing arm curls for the first time in a while, It would be painful to extend my arm. When I’ve had DOMs from weight training, a workout would usually be out of the question until it went away. If it’s really just tired legs you have, then fitness and the “durability” of your fitness is possibly a factor. When I first started training, doing back to back workouts was always a concern because my form would be impacted to a greater degree from a prior hard workout.

Cramps, in my mind, also comes from lack of fitness. And I don’t mean you aren’t fit. Fitness is relative. I mean you are doing an activity above and beyond your current capability for an extended period of time. When I was first getting into road cycling with faster groups and we started going longer and harder than I had ever before, I would cramp. It can still happen to me, but I have to go much further than I would normally. I think that range probably decreases in the summer time do to the amount of temperature regulation your body is expending energy on. I’m not sure its directly related to hydration or electrolytes, but more related to pushing those muscles too far. And perhaps you also see this in the summer as rides tend to be faster and workouts tend to have more intensity.

[HLaB]

Given the amount I drink (which isn’t enough) I would have expected to suffer DOMs after yesterday (the first hot day of the year), but strangely I didn’t perhaps I never pushed hard enough or it was the Sticky Dark Chocolate Bun I had at the coffee stop. Dark chocolate is supposed to be an antioxidant or something

[kurt.braeckel]

@TreyT

Right now for VO2 training I’m leaning towards doing 1 session a week that’s 6-8min intervals and another session thats 2-3min intervals and probably dropping the 30x15x13s as we get into the fall. There’s three reasons for this change. 1-My trainer seems to work better on longer intervals and isn’t as great at short punch intervals. 2-I have osteoarthritis in my left knee which seems to be more susceptible to multiple accelerations so if I can cut down on the number of accelerations I may be doing my knee a favor. 3-I do the 30x15s outside for the trainer reasons listed above and daylight is now significantly shorter than it was a month ago. So I’ll be spending a lot more time on paved trails vs road due to visibility concerns and motorists as I’m riding more in the dark/dusk. So completing intervals indoors makes the most sense and those tend to work better if they’re at least a minute in length if not 2 or 3 minutes in length.

1. All trainers respond better to longer intervals. The solution is to get the heck out of erg mode. Any time you’re doing short/short intervals, the “on” portion essentially needs to be max effort or you’re wasting your time. Get in STANDARD mode, which increases resistance as the flywheel picks up and is excellent for short/shorts.

2. This is probably a valid point, but also indicative that you’re working in erg mode and waiting until the power picks up to start pedaling harder, creating a high-torque situation which is always harder on your knees. Again, try STANDARD mode, and then instead of focusing on pushing HARDER on the "on"s, try spinning FASTER.

Nothing wrong with doing the intervals you’ve described, but of the things you’ve described, those 30/15s are going to be the most effective for training VO2max or Max Aerobic Power relative to intervals done at 102% of FTP.

There are a ton of threads on VO2max training on this forum. You should peruse some of them because great answers and information lie within. Cheers!

[kurt.braeckel]

@AlexMartins

You measure the third interval and the last one should not be umber 5/8% less in average for 5-8min intervals. I might be off a bit in those number as I don’t have the book handy now.

Assuming that you didn’t fade you avg power, you still have something in the tank and should keep going, stop when you hit that decrease in power, always considering the third one as a baseline.

This is certainly one coach’s idea, but that’s all it is. Hard/fast rules like this don’t really exist and it’s pretty common for me to see quality VO2max sessions where people drop quite a bit more than this, even to the point where they are barely above threshold by the end but still achieving a very strong stimulus.

[AlexMartins]

Absolytely.

I’d add that being too much fixed in power numbers might spoil your interval regarding V02.

[MiguelArino]

Have you tried magnesium supplements after rides? Also, electrolyte drinks during rides. These might help if you experience DOMS mainly in the summer.

[TreyT]

Been taking magnesium for years. Now doing LMNT on rides and taking in more carbs. All seem to help but not eliminate. 80, 90, 100 mile rides generally leave more sore.