idk, I have no wind tunnel data on it but I went from a Garneau Gennix A1, which was hands down the fastest bike I’ve ever ridden, back to a non-aero bike and it was definitely slow, and now I’m on a Specialized venge which is SO FAST.
My avg mph is 20+ on any ride so I realize that the faster you go, the more it matters, but I will never ride a Non-aero bike again.
What do you guys think of TT/Tri bike vs. aeroish bikes like the domane? Reason I ask is that I’ve been riding my 2011 shiv on group rides and the speed is really nice but the bike doesn’t brake or steer like a road bike and I’d like to run a wider tire too because of those unexpected potholes, ya know? I ride on the handlebars when I’m in the line then move to the aerobars when I hit the front.
On one hand it would be nice to have road geometry and a more modern bike (because the shiv is kinda long in the tooth)
On the other hand…I don’t want to dump a ton of money on a bike and go slower!
Finally, as fast as the shiv is, I’m going even faster on my 40K TT bike. The problem with that on group rides is…they’re longer than 40K.
Thanks for any comments you may have 
Joe
I’m surprised that your rid buddies are happy with you being on a TT bike in a group ride.
My club doesn’t agree with group rides on TT or fixed gear bikes because of the relative difference in braking and control.
A road bike is going to be less aero if only due to not having the aero bar position, but will have better comfort, braking, descending, handling which is rather more important on a group ride.
In a group ride, an aero bike isn’t going to be much faster than an endurance bike, unless you are drilling it at the front a lot.
A couple of seconds saved by an aero bike doesn’t seem like a lot day to day, but if you’re racing, that could easily be a massive winning margin.
Well this issue has certainly come up. Yesterday there were two tri/tt bikes and a tandem in the group and some of the riders on “regular” bikes were having a pretty tough day. We’re in central Florida so there are no climbs or descents for the regular bikes to turn the screws, just mile after mile of flat straight roads.
You can say that again! I did some testing between my “group ride” bike (the Shiv) and 40K bike (the Premier Tactical) and on our local 8 mile TT course the Shiv did it at 23.4mph ave with 207 watts ave 206 watts normalized and the Premier Tactical did it at 24.2mph ave with 210 watts ave 208 watts normalized. Same clothes, same wheels, same helmet, and did one run right after another. Even though they look pretty much the same the PT will go about 0.7mph faster with the same effort. It’s got to be literally several mph faster than a regular road bike.
And that’s the dilemma…speed vs. comfort, ease of use, and possibly safety! I’ve been time trialling since the mid 90’s so I’m quite familiar and experienced with these machines but there is just no doubt about it, they are harder to control.
Haha, I feel for the people you’re riding with!
I’m pretty short at 163cm, so when I am at the front of the group pushing 300w on my Venge in aero hoods position, the larger chaps need to push 350+ to hang on as I don’t provide a lot of draft and they have a larger frame to push through the air.
My cDA on the aero bike is about 0.24/0.25.
Perhaps an aero bike with clipons? Better control most of the time, more aero benefit when tucked in? Still going to be hated by the riders on traditional bikes, as genuinely they will need to push 30-50w at least more than you at the same speed.
That 30-50w difference would be about 80-90% from the aero bar position, not the aero frame. Anyone can stick aero bars on their bike. Aero frame are faster, but not that much faster
Agree, but previous poster is currently doing flat group rides on a Shiv. So somewhat unfair on his friends trying to have a chat with him when they are on their hoods!
You’ve got a great TT position…surprisingly you look longer / more stretched out on your Shiv vs. the Premier…even through the Premier is a long & low frame.
To me domane vs aero bike is about whether you have smooth roads or beat up roads. I just came from NM and most of the roads were rough. They were so rough that I was ready to buy a Domane or a modern disc frame that could take 28-30mm tires.
I’ve since moved to a place where we now have mostly smooth pavement and once again my 25mm tires are just fine.
FWIW, in my club, if you showed up on a TT bike you’d have to ride off the back of the group and you couldn’t take part in group dynamics (pace lining, sprinting, etc).
That’s a pretty good idea…I’ll have to really think about that
The venge has that super sweet little aerobar thing for the 1 piece bar/stem combo (I think ?) that looks perfect
agreed, 100%
yeah now that you mention it…wierd!
I’d just like something forgiving. Traffic here is pretty heavy and the roads are smooth until you come along the random hole in the pavement. When the guys pin it and we’re in traffic and I’m holding on for dear life I’d like to have a bike that can just plow thru those pot holes.
Thanks guys!!
Joe
Honestly if OP is going to a group ride that they are not hosting, OP should not be a pace pusher regardless of equipment, rather should be keeping the pace of the rest of the group. This might save OP a bunch of watts, and that’s fine, but group rides usually have a set pace, not power.
Modern Aero bikes are not far off older generation TT frames anyway, so if you had an aero bar with removable clip on bars, like the Venge, or a bike with the Vision drop bars with Extension mounts, that could replace your Shiv.
The Shiv doesn’t strike me as the best/nicest bike for slower social rides, if you decide to holiday with a bike for example. As you’re very much an aero guy, I don’t think you’d be satisfied with a endurance round tube bike, and bike weight is less of an issue if it’s flat.
An aero bike with space for larger tyres might be a good choice, many modern aero bikes fit 28+ tyres.
My suggestion to you would be something like a Specialized Allez Sprint rim brake. Cheap enough that you don’t invest too much money, as aero as most high end bikes, as well as fitting some of your rim brake wheels and fitting larger tyres.
Pretty much the best and most zingy handling bike I’ve ever ridden.
I’ve been riding an aero madone for several years and love it. When I got it, I did some testing to compare it with the tarmac it was replacing. Same wheels and position yielded about 15 watts at 25mph. The tarmac had somewhat aerodynamic bars (k wings), but certainly not an aero optimized cockpit. I’ve read that an aero cockpit with clean cable routing can save more than an aero frame, but I’ve got no data to back that up.
Depending on how you ride/race, 15 watts is a big deal. That’s the difference between holding 25 or 25.5mph in a solo break.
I recently bought a new domane sl7 for gravel racing but have been riding It a bunch on the road. Even though they claim that it’s been somewhat aero optimized, it’s a pig at speed compared to the madone. Several contributing factors with shallower wheels exposed cables, non aero cockpit, etc, but you loose at least 1mph at 250 watts, probably more. Very close to the same position on both bikes (sized down the domane frame to keep the stack reasonable). As others have stated, some of this difference has nothing to do with the frame, but things like hidden cables and integrated aero cockpit can’t really be added if the frame wasn’t designed with that stuff in mind.
Beyond aero how do you like the Domane SL7? I haven’t ridden it yet, but my gen1 fits me very well (fitter only made a few minor tweaks). I’m planning to test it against the new Specialized Roubaix and Cervelo Aspero.
Most modern disc brake race bikes will take up to 30-32mm tires. You can achieve the best of both worlds with fast, say 28mm GP5000, tires.
Also, you need to learn to look ahead for yourself. People usually point out things like potholes but you should never rely on that. You always try to look ahead a bike length or two if you can.
I really like it, more so than I expected. My madone has the iso-speed thingy in the rear I really like the ride. The domane has it front and rear, figured it would be good on gravel for compliance. We ride a lot of back country texas roads with broken pavement and heavy chip seal and this bike with 32’s takes the edge off everything. I previously had an older s-works rim brake roubaix that I rode with 32’s and the domane is noticeably more compliant, but not sloppy at all. BMW smooth, not cadillac floaty if the car analogy makese sense. I did a 150+ mile ride yesterday on some really crappy roads including some gravel and I can’t believe how good I felt at the end. I would have been beat to hell on my madone with 28’s on those roads.
I’ll be riding it at Belgian Waffle in Utah in a few weeks, so that will be a good test.
Negatives - besides the aero -
I looked at the new roubaix and I like specialized stuff in general, but the shock thing up front really turned me off. I didn’t ride a bike with it and It might work great, but I do all my own mechanical work and I try to avoid non-standard stuff like that when possible.
Thanks, the storage compartment seems like a good idea and so-so execution. I also ride really crappy CA roads and have seen multiple bikes eject water bottles so that is biggest turnoff along with paying $8K to buy lighter weight and Di2 (SLR 7). That’s $2k more than SL7.
Yeah, I thought about the SLR, but it had the same wheels and the frame weight difference is only .25lbs. I was originally thinking this was just going to be my backup road bike and gravel race bike and I couldn’t justify the spend. Now I’m thinking this might be my primary training/road bike and just use my Madone for racing. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have gone with the SLR.
I’m really surprised nobody seems to be focusing on aero for gravel. You are so much more likely to end up in the wind in a small group or solo compared to road racing. If they made a Madone that could take 38mm tires, I would have paid dearly for it, even if it didn’t quite have the compliance of the domane.
Aero gravel is definitely a thing. 3T did it with their Exploro a few years ago, then followed it up with the Exploro Racemax this summer. Ridley also has the Kanzo Fast, which also was introduced this summer. I think we’ll be seeing a lot more in this category.
I was set to buy a Racemax, but after a sour experience dealing with a sales manager there, I didn’t think I’ll be touching 3T for a while. They sell through dealers, but also direct to consumer. Except they undercut their dealers, which doesn’t make the dealers very happy. For the bike I was looking at, the difference was about 2000CAD, so not small potatoes. After mentioning this to my dealer - I have an uncommon name - 3T told me they’re tacking on a tax. And then another tax. (Every page you’ll find on their site, including checkout, says incl. taxes). See, dealer price is actually lower! I wasn’t prepared to pay a made up two grand upcharge for… nothing? They try to serve two masters, and piss off both, which is a pity because the bikes look good.
I have a 2020 Domane and the storage box is a gimmick, if you have Di2 battery in the downtube (where Trek wants you to put it), you can barely fit the basic mech kit in there… and if you’re riding the bike in gravel, you’ll want two tubes, pump and CO2, patch kit, bacon strips… etc. You’ll be back to using a saddle bag, top tube bag, or frame bag in no time.
NB I love my 2020 Domane.
